Toyota's Suicide Squeeze

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Oct 10 2007, 08:30 AM) [snapback]523605[/snapback]</div>

Yep can be verified from Toyota sales numbers on their site for the press

Your $40,000 is based on what?? You suckig your thumb?? Please provide a reliable source and reference for this number. This is not a fact till it is proven to be a fact.

BS, see point one. Toyota makes their number of improted vehicles easily available on their press site. Hardly hiding it.

So 2/3 of your facts are pulled out of thin air or blatant BS. Toyotas numbers are no harder or easier to get than GM's numbers. Grasping at straws and BSing. Go drink some more of the GM kool-aid while you are at work for them.

Cost as what? Import cost, cost of sales, distirbution, etc, etc. You know you are talking BS with the numbers you are quoting. What % of sales price go back to the manufacturer? Then how much % do they need to allocate to their overhead structures, warranty, dealer support, distribution, etc, etc, etc.

SO instead of trying to reverse the argument, why don't you back up your claims with real data and verified sources. Grasping at straws and trying to reverse the argument when you are called out for talking BS. No wonder GM is in trouble they have clueless people like you working for them

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Oct 10 2007, 08:38 AM) [snapback]523611[/snapback]</div>

You failed to metion the highly lucrative pharmaceutical as well as civilian and military aircraft exports.

 

Sorry, I wasn't trying for a comprehensive list, just some examples of trade the other way. That's how international trading works, it's a 2 way street and a free market to a degree.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulldog @ Oct 10 2007, 01:19 PM) [snapback]523713[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulldog @ Oct 10 2007, 01:19 PM) [snapback]523713[/snapback]</div>

Major markup is quickly becoming a thing of the past. Last I saw the average Toyota gross nationwide was about $1,100 for the dealers. So whatever the transaction price is less the $1,100 would get you to the cost of goods imported.

Ex. You paid 25,300 for your Prius. The dealer made $2000. That means the dealer paid Toyota motor corp $23,300 for the Prius. There may be additional accounting subtractions(advertising etc) but the cost of goods imported would be very close to the $23,300.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Oct 10 2007, 10:08 AM) [snapback]523557[/snapback]</div>

It's dead on the expectations, and in a down market too. As to overtaking the Sierra...well it's one step at a time. The Ram seems a likely candidate next wouldn't you say?

I don't know how you see 'poor performance' with sales hitting the stated objective and bypassing the Sierra along the way. What is 'poor performance' is that the new GMT900 is selling less than the old GMT800 at both GMC and Chevy. So what is so bad about the 900's that buyers are staying away?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Oct 10 2007, 01:11 PM) [snapback]523777[/snapback]</div>

Again supply the real numbers. Your calculations above show you have no idea what is involved in a business, even the auto business in which you work!!!

Again clueless and factless.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DeadPhish @ Oct 10 2007, 03:49 PM) [snapback]523814[/snapback]</div>

A huge chunk of Fseries and silverado sales are in the heavy duty segment. This segment has been decimated by the housing/construction woes. The fact Silverado is even with last year is close to a miracle and is beyond internal GM expectations under the economic circumstances.

As for the Tundra, you can keep spinning but toytoa added a second plant to sell another 100,000 pickups? Yeah you can say that but it makes no sense whatsoever. San Antonio has a capacity of 250,000 plus pickups? Add that to the Indiana plant and toyota has the capacity to build what 350,000-400,000 pickups?
If toyota thought for a moment they would only sell 200,000 pickups in 2007 with minimal prospect for gains in the coming years there would be no new plant in San Antonio.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulldog @ Oct 10 2007, 03:52 PM) [snapback]523815[/snapback]</div>

Come on show me what i am missing. When you are done the import cost of the Prius will be $10,000. Show me otherwise. You have all the answers. $23,300 is very close.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Oct 10 2007, 04:11 PM) [snapback]523777[/snapback]</div>

Accurate fact: Markup is about 8-12% of dealer invoice. Wholesale invoice is about $1500 less than that again. Dutiable value is something else but that's confidential data at Customs.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Oct 10 2007, 05:08 PM) [snapback]523828[/snapback]</div>

Indiana never built more than 125,000 Tundra units at any time. It does also make the Sequoia and Sienna so it's total production could be 300,000 units but at that it's maxed out.

San Antonio was needed for the additional capacity. By itself it's rated for 250K I believe with room to go to 400K without additional building. The first shift at SA ran through June when the 2nd shift was added. The CrewMax was not started there until August when the 'ramp up' was completed. So now its at two full shifts and all the products. I believe that the SA goal is 175K-200K by itself with Indiana adding another 100K or so. That will probably be for CY 2010 when the diesel is likely to be in full production. After that its just a matter of what happens in the market.

200,000 has always been the first annual goal. Also this year is only a 10-month year. The first new Tundras only hit the stores on Feb 5th and only in limited quantities. Jan and most of Feb were the final months for the remaining 06s. Now in CY 2008 I'd expect 20-25,000 units to be the monthly goals on average with some months at 18000 and some at 30000 units.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DeadPhish @ Oct 10 2007, 04:29 PM) [snapback]523840[/snapback]</div>

Time will tell how successful the Tundra is. I have a friend who is also a toyota dealer and he says it is the first time he has ever seen Toyota "unnerved" about something.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DeadPhish @ Oct 10 2007, 04:17 PM) [snapback]523834[/snapback]</div>

Yeah if the customer pays "invoice", the dealer makes (3%)$800-$1200, like I said. What do you mean "wholesale invoice"?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Prianista @ Oct 3 2007, 01:14 PM) [snapback]520718[/snapback]</div>

What company would overlook the opportunity to help the competition commit suicide? Toyota is merely helping Detroit (re-)load the gun. Detroit has to pull the trigger.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Oct 10 2007, 02:08 PM) [snapback]523828[/snapback]</div>

You make a statement and it is up to you to back it up. You have yet to provide any real data and reference to these number you suck out of thin air.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Oct 10 2007, 05:33 PM) [snapback]523842[/snapback]</div>

Instead of working from the top down ( MSRP to net ) I was working from the bottom up. Take the Prius you mentioned with a MSRP of $25300.

The wholesales cost from Toyota Distribution to the dealers is about $22000. On top of that are added the Dest Charge, Holdback, Fin Reserve and Adv Fee. These total about 7% or say $1500

$22000 + $1500 + $2000 markup = MSRP +/- It's the same thing just working from the distribution point forward.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DeadPhish @ Oct 11 2007, 03:56 AM) [snapback]524077[/snapback]</div>

Don't play with the troll, DeadPhish, he's not worth it. He'll never answer your questions and doesn't listen. He's only here to irk you and get you to react.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulldog @ Oct 10 2007, 11:31 PM) [snapback]524030[/snapback]</div>

I know what "cost" would be on a GM, Ford or Chrylser. I can only educated guess on a Toyota. But I am sure I am close.

 

Your guess is free retail, distribution, landing and import duties/fees.
Ny last comment on this circular thread, it's getting boring and repetative.

 

Your guess is free retail, distribution, landing and import duties/fees.
My last comment on this circular thread, it's getting boring and repetative.

Your guess is free retail, distribution, landing and import duties/fees.
My last comment on this circular thread, it's getting boring and repetative.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Oct 11 2007, 05:11 AM) [snapback]524101[/snapback]</div>

You don't understand what trade deficit means, nor do you understand what it takes to run a large corporation with the associated costs. You seem to only knwo dealer numbers, which is only one link in a very long chain of costs.

So don't try to apply your micro economic thinking on a macro economic discussion.

As the old saying goes "It is better to be thought a fool.........."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulldog @ Oct 11 2007, 01:21 PM) [snapback]524179[/snapback]</div>

You continue to talk about tall of these "hidden costs" associated with importing vehicles. Toyota has less than 8,000 white-collar emolyees in the US which if those costs would be spread over imports and the vehicles manufactured in the US. If all of the 8,000 employees made $200,000 it would only be $1.6 billion but that number could be cut in at least half because less than half of the toyota volume is imports and I doubt very much that the average white-collar salary is $200,000.

As for what trade deficit means: buying more than you sell to a particular entity. In this case Japan and Toyota. If Toyota exported cars from the US the imports would be offset somewhat but last time I checked Toyota exported 0 vehicles from the US to Japan.