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Traction battery rebuild question

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by YY4U, Apr 6, 2013.

  1. YY4U

    YY4U Junior Member

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    Remember the wires that were taped to module 28? Well, I stripped those back and connected them together. Started the car and got a different code; P0a9d, "Hybrid battery temperature sensor "A" circuit low", the opposite of before.

    So we're on the right sensor circuit and maybe we can get somewhere.

    Will the experts chime in now? I think we've located the problem, just not sure what to do next.

    yy
     
  2. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    One of the wires from that sensor is open circuit. You can test them from end to end with an ohm meter. If the wires are not open circuit the sensor it's self is damaged.

    This is likely to be an off the shelf standard thermistor available from places like radio shack. Measure the resistance of one of the good ones at a know temperature or even take the damaged one with you as they may be able to identify it from it's markings.

    Substituting a fixed resistor of about the same value should get you going but this will not sense the temperature, but will stop the code appearing. (probably in the region of 750 ohms, the lower the value the higher the perceived temperature as far as the ECU is concerned.)

    John (Britprius)
     
  3. YY4U

    YY4U Junior Member

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    Let me be a little more clear, the wires are twisted together now. The little connector that held them to the bottom of the module is not connected to anything; is this the actual sensor? Is so, then it needs to be connected, but how?

    It had pulled loose and I couldn't get the wires to connect back to it. It looked like a solid piece of plastic and its only function was to hold the wires flush against the module, so I discarded it and just taped the wires to the bottom of mod #28. Upon closer inspection, I see metal in the little tits that the wires connect to. It must function as a resistor and it not being connected is obviously the problem.

    So, I need to find a way to connect this:

    DSCF7578.JPG DSCF7579.JPG DSCF7580.JPG DSCF7581.JPG

    to the wires, which are now stripped and are bare.

    C'mon guys, there's got to be a way to do this.

    yy
     
  4. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Yes the thermistor is buried inside that piece of plastic.
    If you can touch the ends of the broken wires inside the plastic with an ohm meter and get a reading, if not check one of the others. Connect a resistor of roughly that value across the wires and that will get you going.
    Changing the values of the resistor and monitoring the results with your VCI (the temperature will change with change in value of the resistors, so take notes of temperature against resistor values) when you have values for say 20C and 80C you should be able to buy a thermistor with the correct characteristics.
    Fit this on the end of the wires and tape it to the bottom of module 28 if that's where it came from.

    John (Britprius)
     
  5. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    If you post some results of temperature and resistance value at that temperature I may be able to give you thermistor part numbers, but will need values at leased 50C apart.

    A fix value resistor will get you going without fault codes but will not track the temperature of the battery. A thermistor is a resistor that goes down in value as the temperature applied to it goes up.

    John (Britprius)
     
  6. YY4U

    YY4U Junior Member

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    John,

    Thanks, if I can clear this latest hurdle, I think I'm home free. There ought to be someway to connect these. I also dug the old connectors (I just snipped off) out of the trash:

    DSCF7583.JPG DSCF7582.JPG DSCF7584.JPG
    DSCF7585.JPG
     
  7. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    You may be able to trim the plastic off the two points where the wires came from on the "clip" and solder the wires on. Do not worry to much about the plastic of the clip melting as long as you can get wires soldered back on. See if you can get a resistance reading before try to solder the wires.

    John (Britprius)
     
  8. YY4U

    YY4U Junior Member

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    John,

    Sorry about the slow response, this is all new to me and I'm learning as I go. I have no background in eletricity.

    The sensor is very tiny and it's hard to get a reading. With ohms set at 2000 on my meter, I got inconsistant readings, but they were all between 1450 and 1900. I don't know if this helps.

    Next step is to see if I can shave back the plastic tits and get a clean solder.

    I won't be doing this for a day or two as I'm busy with something else. Anyone reading this who has an idea about connecting the wires to the sensor, please feel free to show us what you got.

    I guess the good news here is I'm not getting any other battery codes. The end is near, I can just feel it!

    yy
     
  9. boppo

    boppo Active Member

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    yy4u, would a crimp connector work in this app?
     
  10. YY4U

    YY4U Junior Member

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    I don't think so. Not enough to crimp to. Soldering is looking like the best option here.

    yy
     
  11. YY4U

    YY4U Junior Member

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    The head unit on my Life Fitness elliptical machine just went on the blink. I took it all apart and tomorrow I'm taking it to a repair guy, and guess what else I'm going to show him.....




    yy
     
  12. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Call in at your local electronics part supplier "radio shack, maplins, RS" dependant on where you are and buy some resistors 1.2k ohm, 1.5k ohm, 1.8k ohm, and 2k ohm, they are pennies to buy.
    Starting with the 2k ohm just twist the wires onto it and check the results.
    The car should drive ok with no faults and you can check the apparent temperature with the VCI at that resistance and compare it with the other intact values on the other thermistors.
    Changing out the other resistors you should see the temperature displayed through the VCI rise.

    John (Britprius)
     
  13. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Tell the guy it's a thermistor and he may be able to check it and give or get you a replacement thermistor. It will not look like the "clip" you have as they are just a tiny bead with two wires coming from it. Just connect insulate and fasten to the bottom of module 28 with anything that will hold it securely in place "hot melt glue would be good"

    John (Britprius)
     
  14. YY4U

    YY4U Junior Member

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    Thanks, john, will do in the am.


    yy
     
  15. YY4U

    YY4U Junior Member

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    Unable to repair the thermistor, thankfully one of the guys on here had a harness he's selling me at a good price. I drove the car 120 miles down the interstate today, no new codes.

    While I'm waiting for the harness, I stopped by Radio Shack and picked up a 1.5ohm resistor and wired it up. I just wanted to see it run without the traction battery light on for the first time since I've owned the car. No go, I got a new code, P0a9c, which I believe just tells us 1.5ohms is the wrong resistance.

    Hopefully in a few days I'll be posting good news. Haven't I said that before?

    yy
     
  16. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    That would be 1.5K ohms, 1.5 kilo ohms, not 1.5 ohms.
     
  17. YY4U

    YY4U Junior Member

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    I stand corrected, sir! Keen eye.

    I drove the car 160 miles today, no new codes.

    yy
     
  18. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Congrats then you've cracked it.
    I know the process has been drawn out, but some of your problems were nothing to do with the balancing process rather a wiring problem.
    Lesson always have a method of reading problem codes to stop you going into blind a alley. The next time will be easy.

    John (Britprius)
     
  19. YY4U

    YY4U Junior Member

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    Thanks, John, you and others have been a great help.

    I wanted to give a couple of pointers to anyone who may be reading this in the future who could benefit from my struggles. The first has to do with getting the case back together. It is extremely difficult to get the modules compressed enough to get the end cap fitted. I knocked a hole in one module attempting to bang it in. The trick is to (hat tip ryousideways) use a board or something similiar to get the other 26 modules fitted tight, then remove the board and work the last 2 modules in. It takes a little fiddling, but you'll eventually get it. My set up was not exactly like ryousideways', but these are the boards I had and it worked:
    DSCF7558.JPG
    DSCF7557.JPG
     
    ryousideways, boppo and nh7o like this.
  20. YY4U

    YY4U Junior Member

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    The next thing I wanted to discuss was how easy it is to strip the screws and nuts when connecting/disconnecting the bus bars and modules.

    As you may remember, the first time I balanced the modules' voltages I stripped a couple of the battery terminals and nuts. The nuts were an easy fix; a metric (#5, I believe) nut and a washer from the hardware store. The stripped terminals required busting the pack and wasting several hours with my tap and die set.

    The second balancing act, trying my best not to, and not using power tools, I still stripped a couple of terminals, and on module #1 at that! I needed a complete disassembly! I was so pissed off and hot, another half day wasted! Fortunately it was exactly 4:20 in the afternoon, so after relaxing and pondering the situation from a much more enlightened perspective, I decided to try and work the die directly onto the terminal without the long die holder. I got it started with my fingers and used a pair of pliars to slowly turn the die, shooting a little oil on it now and then. And it worked! Twice!

    Be careful with the screws that connect the modules to the case. They strip and/or just snap off in the module very easily. The good news is the modules are really in there tight, and if you have a few that won't fasten down, just stagger them around and you'll be golden. Once the pack is buttoned up nice and tight, the modules aren't going anywhere.



    yy
    DSCF7570.JPG DSCF7571.JPG