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Trade Deficit has crippled the United States of America

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by malorn, Mar 10, 2011.

  1. nerfer

    nerfer A young senior member

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    Welcome back Malorn, but sorry, you still need to be reminded of the facts:
    I'd rather give my money to the Japanese than OPEC. Detroit is starting to make some fuel-efficient cars finally, so if I was buying a car today, I might look at the Ford Fusion Hybrid, or the Ford Fiesta.
     
  2. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    Why give it to either?

    $2.6 trillion to Japan and China over the last 10 years in unadjusted $'s. $187 Billion to Saudi Arabi over the same 10 years. Which problem is worse? Total trade with OPEC over last 10 years: exports of $367 billion and imports of $1.22 trillion. Deficit of $855 billion.
     
  3. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I guess you didn't look at those Carlin videos. We were sold out a LONG time ago, and the perpetrators include GM, Ford, and Dodge (Or whatever they call themselves these days), along with GE, the banking industry, etc etc etc
     
  4. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    Corporations, specifically lobbyists, own the government. Campaign reform is imperative to bring back a representative government. Until that happens all the voting public has to do is choose among different corporate puppets. I know this sounds cliche but that is how I see it.

    Every piece of legislation going into the president's office now has been infected by special interests. As such it's all extremely verbose and packed with loop holes. The number of lobbyists in the country has grown exponentially in the past few decades. If you're not part of the group you will be demonized by it. This is why there are two parties and then a few guys who don't have a chance, because they want to upset the boat. And the boat is best balanced by democrats and republicans on separate sides but all rowing in the same direction.

    The public has also been sold hook line and sinker on the American dream and that the freer the market the better. What goes around comes around and those who don't study history, nor have any idea about current demographical trends, will be victimized by them. And so, we have record corporate profits last quarter with continued high unemployment. This is the future, corporate America does not need the bottom tiers because it has $2/day workers in China.
     
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  5. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Our petroleum comes from a lot more places than just Saudi Arabia or OPEC.

    Nerfer's link indicates petroleum made up 55% of our total trade deficit in 2009. Wonder what is was in 2008 when crude was $100+.
     
  6. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    Jayman, who was more at fault, gm, Ford, GE etc or Japan, China etc? Do you really think Japan building 200% of the autos that its market can absorb is the fault of GM etc? Do you think the manufacturing boom may have been planned by a central government eager for wealth that copied a blueprint created by the Japanese in dealing with the "elite" of this country?
     
  7. nerfer

    nerfer A young senior member

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    Because if you buy American, you're going to get a gas guzzler (at least that was the case). I was making the point that at least now a couple Fords are on the market that may squeak out 40 mpg in the right conditions, and the Chevy Volt although it's outside my price range. But otherwise by buying an "American" car you're automatically forcing the U.S. to import oil.

    Did you even read what I quoted? In 2009 the petroleum net trade deficit was $204 billion, total trade deficit was $381 billion. Therefore, petroleum (from all countries) was 54% of our total trade imbalance (in a year of relatively low oil prices).

    Right. Canada and Mexico are top on the list, although most people don't seem to mind giving them our money. But right after that (in order) is Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Nigeria, Russia, Algeria and Iraq. Name a friendly country in that group.

    Beyond that, oil is a global commodity, so using it here means the price goes up worldwide, so all of Opeckistan benefits from our gas guzzlers, and the terrorists can find easy funding. Doesn't sound very patriotic to me.

    But Malorn does have a point that we get too much stuff from China. I was trying to buy an electrical plug the other day at the hardware store (my EBH was acting erratically), and 95% was made in China. The others came from South America. You can't buy American if you try. Even my son's Boy Scout uniform and accessories come from China. That's a pretty patriotic organization, you would think they'd try to buy local.
     
  8. caffeinekid

    caffeinekid Duct Tape Extraordinaire

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    I don't know about others, but I simply refer to it as the central banking cartel since currency is the pinnacle of all commerce- even traditional industry, which actually ranks below energy and certain NGOs. National governments are merely the stick or carrot depending on what you have to offer and which is more conducive to their interests to use to acquire it from you. Anyone ever wish they could have been a fly on the wall when the likes of Bill Gates ended up on their radar? You've gotta wonder how those sessions went that culminated in the formation of the Bill and Linda Gates Foundation. Was it something straight out of Think & Grow Rich?

    I never really took the time to listen to Carlin until closer to his death. The more I hear of his material though, the more of a kindred spirit I feel.
     
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  9. SSimon

    SSimon Active Member

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    You can find a significant percentage of anything you want Made in the USA on the internet. You just have to have patience, endurance and not "impulse shop", which is better for the pocket book anyway.

    I think this place is out by you: Norton's U.S.A. - Made in U.S.A. General Store
     
  10. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Please watch this video

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q]YouTube - George Carlin ~ The American Dream[/ame]

    Until you understand and accept who is REALLY at fault, it is pointless to discuss any further
     
  11. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    They don`t want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table to figure out how badly they are getting f***ed by a system that threw them overboard thirty f***ing years ago

    Think about it

    Oil imports make up over half of total imports. The number one single source of American oil imports is your friendly neighbour to the north, Canada
     
  12. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    I agree with Carlin. I don't think there is an evil "they", some kind of global elite of oppressives with a grand plan. I think it's simpler and more obvious. "they" is simply money and those who have it, the golden rule being those with the gold make the rules. Money has always controlled. I do think it's worse in the US because of the onslaught of campaign finance. It seems more or less to me legal, open corruption.
     
  13. skilbovia

    skilbovia Member

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    So let’s look a little more closely at the American system. It’s rather simple. We have companies that are under competitive pressure to make the most money possible on the products they sell so they can reward their shareholders with better stock prices and more dividends. In order to do this they need to:
    1. Keep wages and benefits as low as possible.
    2. Outsource everything but core competencies
    3. Make profits that steadily increase.
    4. Lobby government to make sure that their negative effect on profits is as small as possible.
    If left unchecked these companies would maximize unemployment and profits, while minimizing benefits and taxes while bribing (yes lobbying is legalized bribery) the government to minimize their effect on their profits.
    So how do we profit from this? The only way is to become shareholders. You then become paid the way they are paid. You can fight this all you want but you’ll go poor doing it.
    That’s nice for people that can afford to invest (the rich get richer) but what about the folks that fall victim to item 1 above?
    Sorry, there’s no way out. They haven’t hit bottom yet. There’s still room to move in with their parents and relatives. They can still sell one of their cars and live with one. They can buy cheaper food. They can die from lack of healthcare.
    So these people need help. Where does it come from after one has exhausted all his alternatives? Why, it would be charity from the wealthy in some form. Remember when a guy named Hershey built a town for his workers which fell apart when his profits fell. Oh that’s right, it’s those shareholders again, suddenly more important than the people that worked hard to make him rich. So we can’t rely on the company to help. What about the individuals. Well some are like Gates and Buffet, but most are greedy and not willing to share.
    So, the rich have much more that they need and the poor, hard workers that made them rich have less than they need. What do we do??
    We tax the b*****ds and we vote out anybody that says different. See, this is where George Carlin and I part ways. You see companies and shareholders owe us something because if they are going to use us to maximize their profits paying us as little as possible and yes even take our jobs and benefits away so that they can reward other rich people (shareholders) well then pressure has to be applied somewhere. These people need to reward the people that put them where they are one way or another. And if they don’t do it willingly then we have to take it from them. In the past this has been done by revolution but hopefully it doesn’t end that way. The way it should end is for us to use the only weapon we have to get what we need. We vote. And we vote to ensure that we get back what we put in.
    And that means entitlements. Social Security, Welfare, and Health Care, all paid for by increasing taxes on companies and the very rich.
    I have already pointed out that the holders of wealth won’t donate willingly to the people that made them rich so the money has to be taken from them in a way that will cause them to either go to jail or out of business. That means taxes. Yup, you pile on the taxes on anyone that has more money than they need to provide a reasonable standard of living for those that they have robbed for the sake of their shareholders.
    And how do we force this to happen. One way. We vote. And we vote together to make sure that any candidate that refuses to tax the rich and major corporations at rates sufficient to better the quality of life of the middle class by lowering their taxes and providing them with health care and retirement benefits and unemployment benefits when they get put out of their jobs doesn’t get elected or reelected.
    See I don’t see this as political. I see this as the only solution. Republicans won’t like this and Democrats might. The haves need to realize that it’s the have nots that put them where they are and need to be more grateful for what they have done for them.
     
  14. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Here's a little movie called The Corporation that explains how we let ourselves get into this mess. It's not safe for work, but in a completely different way than George Carlin.
     
  15. caffeinekid

    caffeinekid Duct Tape Extraordinaire

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    I don't believe in evil either. There are only humans and the incentives that motivate them. HOWEVER, there is most certainly a "they". And somewhere amongst "them" at the apex of global power, you can sure bet that there is a 1 in 6 billion who ultimately calls the shots. That is the only 'simple' part about it since "all things that rise must converge". And this individual answers to incentives like the rest of us, just on a more surreal level than most can possibly imagine.

    To elaborate- imagine what you would do if you could never spend all of the money you had even if you tried. What would you do? Now imagine that you have done all of those things.....what next? Keep following this path of reasoning to the top and then apply it to all of the important news and world events happening.
     
  16. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    It wasn't Japan's fault that the GM kept saying I didn't really want the car I said I wanted. And that GM wasn't going to build it because they knew better than I what I really wanted.
     
  17. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Yes, that is a good documentary and true

    Too bad Malorn won't believe it. For whatever reason, at the end of the day all of the worlds ills fall back onto Toyota.

    Never mind corrupt f***s on Wall Street. Never mind the outright incompetent criminal f***s who run companies like GM. Never mind the criminal bought-and-paid-for f***s who sit in Congress and the Senate

    This really is nothing new. Anybody see a movie classic "Mr Smith Goes To Washington?"

    The most moving scene in the entire movie



    tragic how nothing has changed

    I'm sure it was Toyota's fault even back in 1939
     
  18. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    Not Toyota's fault. It is the average american's fault for buying a cell phone made in China, a car made in Japan, clothing made it China, shoes made in Thailand, oil made in Canada, a computer made in china, a television made in Korea....and then asking why the standard of living is dropping, so many are unemployed, underemployed. Why is basic economic theory not taught in schools? Consuming more than you produce does not end in a positive situation. Does not matter if it is individual, household, company, state, country. The US is on the path to self-destruction economically, toyota is just one of the vehicles "moving us forward" towards that self-destruction.

    Why does the US have no industrial policy?

    Why do US tax laws encourage companies to relocate employment overseas?

    Why does the US not slap tariffs on countries and companies "dumping" products?

    Jayman, you are a smart guy, if nothing changes, when does the US implode?
     
  19. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    Those with the money invest it in politicians' campaigns and encourage regulations that make them more money. It really is that simple. And then of course there's a lot of luck/bad luck built in. Most people have no clue about the economy's trends and what impacts it. I often don't, nor do, it's pretty obvious, the majority of economists. Figuring out what helps or hurt another area of the economy is like getting a foot away from a giant painting and trying to figure out what it looks like when looking at it through a straw (I stole this analogy from somewhere, can't claim ownership I'm afraid!).
     
  20. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Jesus, you really don't get it do you?

    We were bought and sold decades ago. We were sold out by the wealthy elite and the large corporations who have controlled the government for decades. Well, actually, since day one, but now the chickens have all come home to roost

    Interesting how those large corporations encourage cheap credit so people can be in debt up to their eyeballs always buying, so the economy has the appearance of being healthy

    We won't fall off a cliff so much as slide down generation by generation. Happens all the time in central and south American countries. We've been through this so many times already

    Routine recessions at the start of the 1900's. Major world war. Brief prosperity and glory days, the Roaring Twenties. Stock crash and severe global depression. Another major world war

    Oops then the game changed. No longer possible to have global wars, as nuclear weapons were invented.

    So we have localized conflict with conventional weapons. Increased consumer culture, a dramatic shift in debt loads from public sector to private sector

    We now have folks who use the equity in their home as a convenient ATM machine. We now have folks who no longer know how to save

    I paid cash for my vehicles. I paid cash for my house. That puts me in such a minority it almost doesn't show up on the books

    So if you want to do something about the economy, ask both official parties why they don't do anything about it. Ask why large corps have sold us out. Ask why unions have sold us out.

    Matter of fact, if you were to run for public office with a message like that, I guarantee you would not get in. The public would shudder at the thought