1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Trade Deficit has crippled the United States of America

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by malorn, Mar 10, 2011.

  1. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    4,281
    59
    0
    Location:
    "Somewhere in Flyover Country"
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    The housing-based economy was not much different than Madoff's scheme. Artificially inflate the balance sheet of ordinary citizens through the value of their home and then let them borrow agianst that inflated value thereby keeping the bubble inflated. Now the bubble has burst and we are dealing with the mess.
     
  2. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    4,281
    59
    0
    Location:
    "Somewhere in Flyover Country"
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Unemployment will remain very high for years. Only with a real industrial policy will the US pull out of this employment malaise.
     
  3. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,073
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    1) Rate of exchange.

    2) Predatory pricing.

    3) Government limitation of domestic consumption.

    As for why:

    1) International economics.

    2) Market penetration.

    3) Foreign currency while keeping internal factors under control.

    Tom
     
  4. skilbovia

    skilbovia Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    400
    91
    0
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    A very good documentary available in its entirety on Netflix' Watch Instantly streaming service.
     
    2 people like this.
  5. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    4,281
    59
    0
    Location:
    "Somewhere in Flyover Country"
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    How could most goods really be cheaper here when you have to factor in the cost of transport? I would say the only way is a targeted industrial policy in the exporting nation, combining exchange rates, transport underwriting, and production subsidies.
    How would you like to be a US manufacturer of anything right now and going to a bank for the capital to produce goods to compete with the Chinese? How likely would you be to get a bank loan? Now you know wwhy unemployment and underemployment is not going away.
     
  6. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,073
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    You got it exactly: targeted industrial policy. It's not that the goods are cheaper here, they are artificially more expensive in the producing country.

    In other cases it's simply labor and environmental costs. If you can make something for a lot less, you still have room for shipping costs. Shipping can be surprisingly inexpensive when done in bulk, although rising fuel costs will tend to change that.

    Tom
     
  7. caffeinekid

    caffeinekid Duct Tape Extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    334
    44
    2
    Location:
    Houston
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    It hurts my brain reading people discuss this subject in circles....but I guess that is what makes the local bar such a stalwart of man-culture. This video explains where everything that you are discussing starts and ends.

     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    2,641
    264
    0
    Location:
    Western NY
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Forget it. There are some manufacturers still opening up shop in the US, even notable ones (and not just automotive, but Intel I think recently opened a big one). But for each of those you've got far more shipping outside. Only very specific circumstances encourage manufacturing here. Knowledge-based manufacturing or transportation concerns or high automation (thus decreasing the impact of worker salaries) are some reasons to keep it here but if you want a relatively standard product to be manufactured you wouldn't even bother making it here, you'd engage the Chinese right off the bat.
     
  9. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    4,281
    59
    0
    Location:
    "Somewhere in Flyover Country"
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Until that changes the government programs, food stamps, health care, welfare, wicc, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, social security etc are just band aids on a gushing would that is the US standard of living.
     
  10. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,073
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Lindbergh also said:

    Tom
     
  11. caffeinekid

    caffeinekid Duct Tape Extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    334
    44
    2
    Location:
    Houston
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    So what? I could just as easily quote dozens (probably hundreds) of others on the matter.

    Here's a few more if it makes you feel better:

    “The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, and more selfish than beaurocracy. It denounces as public enemies all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe.†Abe Lincoln


    "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs." — Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President.


    "History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance." — James Madison.
     
  12. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,073
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    My point is that Lindbergh is not a great person to quote, unless you are talking about aviation.

    The others in your list are quite a different matter. Why not use one of their quotes instead?

    Tom
     
  13. caffeinekid

    caffeinekid Duct Tape Extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    334
    44
    2
    Location:
    Houston
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Well for one thing, the Lindbergh I quoted was the Congressman father, not the aviator son Lindbergh Jr. who you quote, although the confusion is nothing new. For another, Lindbergh Sr. was correct about a lot of things- especially the Federal Reserve cartel. And I don't really see a problem using his statement since it was completely accurate. The substance and validity of the information is more important to me than the propaganda put out against the messenger.

    Did you even watch the video I posted?
     
  14. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,073
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Gotcha. My mistake. Lindbergh Jr. is often revered, although he had some unflattering characteristics.

    What video? I was responding only to your signature.

    Tom
     
  15. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    4,281
    59
    0
    Location:
    "Somewhere in Flyover Country"
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    I am amazed so many of you just throw up your hands.
     
  16. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    15,232
    1,562
    0
    Location:
    off into the sunset
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    How does watching "The Corporation" constitute giving up? It's not exactly America's Next Top Model; it's serious, mind-changing stuff. Don't knock it until you've tried it.
     
  17. hampdenwireless

    hampdenwireless Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    1,104
    86
    0
    Location:
    Baltimore MD
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Someone might be able to explain why better then me.

    Many cars are cheaper in the USA then in their home countries despite the fact that they need to be shipped here. I think the Prius was cheaper here then in Japan at a number of times. Apple products are cheaper in the USA then in China and other countries despite being made in China.

    Steel and memory chips from Asia were dumped in the USA allegedly below manufacturing cost!
     
  18. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,101
    10,035
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    We don't load them up with the same VATs and HSTs and road taxes and other contributions to the government.
    Local Chinese brands are much cheaper than real US-brand products anywhere.
     
  19. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    2,641
    264
    0
    Location:
    Western NY
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Cheaper here for tax reasons. I know some vehicles produced in Ontario and shipped down here are cheaper than in Ontario, for example. And Canada is a net exporter of oil, but gasoline is more expensive there than in the US for the same reason.
     
  20. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    4,281
    59
    0
    Location:
    "Somewhere in Flyover Country"
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Japan makes competition very difficult(less than 5% import autos) and China ads huge tariffs to american products that are not part of a 50% joint venture.