Transaxle Oil Analysis

Hi steve, both you and Edthefox are trying out non-WS and I hope that wea can eventually see chemical analyses from these efforts. Thanks.

 

I went with Redline D6 too around 15,000 miles ago. I dumped my 07's WS at 5K.
I noticed an improvement in noise level and drivetrain seemed smoother especially at 85+ miles after the D6 install. Trying to wait till I have 30K on that fluid to replace it and at that time will have an UOA done on it.

 

I ordered mine online from here Red Line Oil. You can buy a gallon jug of D6 for $43 and it's just enough for the change.

 

So R&G labs services individual also? From their web site it seems they are only interested in industrial customers?

 

They did my analysis. Bob Wilson suggested using PdMA (now R&G) because they already had done several UOA for him.

I emailed them with the basic info, they gave me an address to send the sample to, they emailed me the results. My contact is Cheryl Huff, cheryl<at>randglabs.com (replace the <at> with @)

 

Boy no military discount/what a bummer.

Ok the good news is WS is $7.70 a quart// no synthetic lable. Bad news is that they want $120 to dump and fill. They first quoted me $70 then changed their mind when I showed up. They said they had to use a computer. OK, I would have believed that was the only way if I was not a member of this forum. Then they said they have never did a fluid change on a Prius and it never needs one. Now this is a lie for sure because they have been in business for 20 years. I mentioned the forum and they said I should call Toyota. Not!

OK, so I will have my local mechanic do it at 12K or I will do it myself. I really wanted the dealer to do this because I do not have the time to fool with it these days. But now it is the principle of the thing and I will have to make time.

 

PS// I wonder if the Honda CVT fluid would work? Does the Prius have a CVT tranny?

 

Let me suggest sending virgin oil samples of the oil you want to substitute and Type WS to the same lab. Make sure they test the viscosity at 40C and 100C viscosity and compare the additive loads. Regardless of the test results, alternate oil should be tested with an active program to test at regular intervals to see what is going on:

• 1 k miles
• 2 k miles
• 5 k miles
• 10 k miles
• 20 k miles
• 50 k miles
• 100 k miles

I would recommend having a backup vehicle in case the experiment goes badly.

Bob Wilson

 

The Prius eCVT is not a belt/cone CVT. It cosists of a set of planetary gears and two motor/generators whose windings are exposed to the ATF. Substitute other ATFs with care (Bob implied the same).

JeffD

 

I finally got around to draining and filling the transmission in my 2005 Prius. After reading this thread, I went and bought the WS fluid at the dealer where I bough the car. This was after I inquired how much for a drain and fill. I was quoted $300 for the job. I declined and had a front wheel alignment and oil change with Mobil One instead. (usually do my own changes with M1 but had stitches on my toe from a surgery so I let them do this one). Maybe the service writer was confused about the price, but I decided right there to do it on my own. After finishing the job this morning(about 45 minutes because i took my time) I called two other dealers in the area. They averaged about $145 each to do the job. This was an easy DIY job, and I used the tools mentioned in this thread.

First I opened the fill port, I heard the slight pressure hiss. I then opened up the drain port and positioned the used oil bucket in place, all went well with the drain. The drain plug did have some small metal shavings that looked like magnetic stuff on those magnetic drawing boards. I cleaned them off and tightened it up with the torque wrench. I already had a length of plastic tubing from the pump device that was also pictured in this thread. I just inserted one end of a small funnel into the top end, and ran the hose through the engine compartment after raising the hood. Almost all 4 quarts were added until a little bit of fluid started to trickle out the fill port. Tightened the fill plug up and wiped it down. That was easy, thanks for all who contributed to this thread. Looks like no one has added anything here on this thread for almost 5 months. I am curious to hear how the guys with the synthetic oils for tranny use are doing. Anyone care to add there experience using synthetic tranny fluids?

By the way, sorry I did not do a used oil analysis. The color of the fluid seemed pretty red for the drops that stained a white paper towel, but while the fluid was draining, the stream looked pretty dark and had a different smell than the new stuff I added. I did have my tranny fluid changed at the dealer when I had about 77 thousand miles on it.(this fluid had about 43 thousand miles on it roughly) I decide to do it early because I drive high freeway miles, and that summer I had driven through Arizona desert temperatures in the 110 degree range. The dealer originally denied to do the first drain and fill but, they knuckled under when I insisted they do it as preventative maintenance. Now when I go to the dealer there is a computer message flag that comes up when my car is on the service computer. It says that I had them do the tranny drain and fill against their advice. I have 124 thousand miles on it now and I can say she is still running good. It even feels like there is less or none of the tranny pulsing and such when the ICE is running in park. Maybe some of you know what I am talking about, it seems the tranny wants to go while ICE is running and you are stopped in park. Almost slight pulsing or shuttering.

I did the drain and fill when the car was cold. I leveled the front wheels on two ramps because my driveway is somewhat downhill. After the job, I drove up and down the freeway for about 8 miles, so far so good. I will be driving to the OC in awhile and will observe any changes when the car really warms up through the hills into the OC. Will post any anomalies I find. Wish me luck and thanks again to all who posted in this thread.

EDIT: After driving through the hills, I noticed that the overall smoothness of the transmission is improved. The transitions to ICE ON and electric motors on while accelerating seemed much smoother than before the fluid change. The transitions from ICE ON and or ELECTRIC motors ON to coasting is much smoother now too. The MPG display is showing 49.9 right now after 150 miles on the current gas tank.

Now if I can only have enough courage to replace the PCV valve I bought last year.

 

I can't believe this message flag that you mentioned - the implication is that you are doing harm by changing the fluid?

The PCV valve isn't that hard to do, Galaxee posted good instructions. Allow 3-4 hours the first time you do this, good luck.

 

In case you did not see, I posted my results fromt he latest test in the other sticky thread. We have two on this topic for some reason.

http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...ansaxle-oil-testing-results-3.html#post997149

 

Yes it would be nice to merge the two. At least remove the "DRAFT" from the title. Administrator?

 

Compare gen 2 and 3 transaxle oil anal at 5K

I may be comparing apples with oranges but it is interesting to note that the 5K transaxle oil analyses of Bob Wilson's gen 3 2010 and my gen 2 2009 come back with very similar numbers.
I don't know why the viscosity index differ so much considering the viscosity at two temperatures measured almost identical.

 

It has to do with how VI is calculated. The difference between 163 and 171 is probably not significant.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity_index]Viscosity index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

Thanks! It looks like the VI is calculated based on the viscosity at 40 and 100C anyway, and any number beyond 100 has surpassed the original designed scale.

 

==========================================
Re: Post 02-05-2010, 04:53 PM "CTV failure"
I've found and installed a used transaxle and am back on the road.
Just got the dope on the fluid analysis (WS) and am stunned by some of the numbers.
This is a 2004 with 92Kmiles in which neither the fluid nor coolant had ever been changed.
What conclusions can you draw from these numbers..??
The original won't cut-and-paste; I'll copy the vital stuff.
Jack Moss
Na 4
K1
Si 236
Al 210
Fe 383
Cr 4
Pb 2
Cu 37
Sn 6
Ni 15
Ag <0
Ti 0.44
V 1
Zn 20
Ca 131
Mg 5
Ba 23
B 51
Mo 0
P 304.6
Lube Tests
OXI 57
V100 4.9
V40 24.8
W N
ISO 23/15
10y 1565
15y 263
20y 98
30y 31
50y 11
75y 3
100y 1
%Water 0.00
GLY N
------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENTS Lab No Eval Comment N182-40070-0117 X VERY ELEVATED IRON MAY BE SOURCED TO GEAR, BEARING, SPLINE, SHAFT, PLATE, HOUSING, PUMP WEAR.
VERY ELEVATED ALUMINUM SOURCED TO TORQUE CONVERTER/ TURBINE, SOME PUMPS, BUSHINGS, DIRT(AlSiO), GREASES.
VERY ELEVATED SILICON CAN BE SOURCED TO DIRT ENTRY, NON-ABRASIVE ASSEMBLY COMPOUND, GREASES.
OTHER ANALYSIS READINGS APPEAR TO BE ACCEPTABLE. RECOMMEND RESAMPLE ASAP TO CONFIRM ANALYSIS. PLEASE INDICATE KMS. ON UNIT & OIL. INCOMPLETE SAMPLE REQUEST INFORMATION CAN REDUCE QUALITY OF REPORT INTERPRETATION. Sample Note :

 

Simple post, got my Trans-axle fluid changed at 50K, the dealer said that it was dirty and I made a good decision to do so. I'm glad I didn't wait for the 80K+ that toyota recommends.

 

At my 60,000 mile servicing I was just was told that the transaxle is starting to leak and need to replace the seal, driver's side. Is this normal? All servicing has been done at the Toyota dealer. I do a typical mix of local/freeway driving in California weather (mild year round). I asked the service folks at the Toyota shop whether this was typical and they simply said this seal can wear out any time depending on the driving. That struck me as failing to give an honest answer as to the general experience of when these seals wear out.

 

No its not normal. The transmission is a maintenance free item. Look in your service manual, where exactly does it say to change the ATF fluid???

But as for the leaky seal, yes, you should fix that, since its something that wore out and should be replaced. And service people will never give you honest answers regarding repairs. They'll just say its broken, fix it, or it will break soon, fix it anyways.