tried to fix hybrid battery, this is what happened

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Cody26, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. Cody26

    Cody26 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2018
    86
    18
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    I replaced a module on a hybrid battery and charged individual modules to almost full. I don't know what is happening. I also changed bus bars to nickel coated ones as in the following link.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyota-Prius-Hybrid-Battery-nickel-coated-bus-bars-2004-2015/253810358570?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

    Please, I welcome your help and appreciate it.

    One more note, when I started the car the auxiliary battery was dead so I am assuming all voltage went to charge the auxiliary battery. I think I have to open and really see if that was the case. Now I have the auxiliary battery in very good condition so I might have to charge the pack one more time. Let me know what you think.
     

    Attached Files:

    #1 Cody26, Oct 22, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    94,207
    42,709
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    did you balance the battery?
     
  3. Cody26

    Cody26 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2018
    86
    18
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----


    I edited the thread. Is it possible if the pack is not balanced then it will throw an error.
     
  4. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    5,982
    3,781
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Those modules look way out of whack. That pack is dead. But that shouldn't cause your no start scenario.

    You've got a couple separate problems. Looks like you may have forgot to plug all the wiring harnesses back in as the cooling fan for the HV battery is saying it's not reading properly.

    Then you're fuel pump is probably out. This could be the fuse or the pump itself. Since you're jumping it and replacing the aux battery things like fuses can blow. That would cause all the rest of your problems. You can see the peak of about 20A being drawn from the HV pack. That's to start the engine using MG1. It spins it for a bit, no fuel and then dies.

    DO NOT KEEP TRYING TO START THE CAR WITHOUT FIGURING THIS OUT.

    You will put yourself in a chicken and egg scenario where you've run the battery too low to start the engine and since the engine isn't started the battery can't be charged up.
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  5. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    919
    906
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    +1

    Sorry, I couldn't resist.

    I'll try to be helpful now.

    The first problem to address is you gasoline engine is not running right. This condition will quickly drain any hybrid battery. Clean the MAF sensor! After that check the spark plugs, air filter, and clean the throttle body. This should take care of the POAOF, P3190 and P3191 codes. Until those codes are cleared and the engine is running properly nothing else is going to work right.

    Next up is the P0A84 code. Check the fuse for the battery cooling fan. Sometimes water will leak onto the wiring for the fan and corrode the connecting plugs. You have to have the cooling fan working for the battery to have a chance.

    The P0A80 is the last problem to worry about. Blocks 9, 12 and 13 are obviously low. However, The state of charge is really low at 29.5%. The Delta SOC should be 0 and not 13%. The battery was also under a big discharge of 18.71 amps. All of this is similar to what happens to a battery when a Prius is run out of gas. The battery will keep pushing the car down the road until the weakest modules start dropping out. Get the engine working and then look at the battery again. Learn how to do a forced charge and discharge and compare the results.
     
    #5 strawbrad, Oct 22, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
    PriusV17 and greasemonkey007 like this.
  6. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    11,137
    15,248
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area, California
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Looking at this freeze frame data, you have sub codes you can run down;).

    I’d look into those for the next steps:).

    Good luck and keep us posted (y).
     
  7. Cody26

    Cody26 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2018
    86
    18
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    Can it be only the fuel fuse problem? Because the car is not out of fuel for sure. I don't know where it is located. I will also have a look at the cooling fan.
     
  8. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    5,982
    3,781
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    P0A0F - Engine Failed to Start
    P3000 - HV Battery Malfunction

    P3190 - Engine Didn't Start
    P3191 - Poor Engine Power
    P0A80 - Replace Hybrid Battery
    P0A84 - Hybrid Battery Pack Cooling Fan 1 Control Circuit Low
    C1259 - HV Regenerative Malfunction
    B1421 - Means you're inside usually - stupid programming error on Toyota's part, ignore

    If I were to bet, I'd say the HV codes are thrown because the engine codes are thrown. Your root problem right now is why didn't the engine start. It can be 1000 things, just like a normal car. Bad or no gas. Bad fuel pump. Blown fuses. Bad spark plugs, bad coils, seized engine, etc. The list goes on and on and on.

    I am assuming from your first post that you had a car that worked. It threw a replace the HV battery code. You replaced modules. Now you are where you are. If so, I'd call it highly unlikely that the engine would seize up with no use. So you can whittle down the possibilities that way. You mentioned a jump start so that to me says you introduced lots of potential sparking and arcing and could have blown all sorts of fuses.

    I start at the simple at work up. What fuses will cause the engine to not fire in the way shown. My guess is fuel pump. And therefore fuel pump fuse or relay. I'd use a DMM and check there. Youtube where they are under the hood.
     
    Cody26 likes this.
  9. Cody26

    Cody26 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2018
    86
    18
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    That is exactly what happened. It was a running car.
     
  10. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    919
    906
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    A dirty MAF sensor is much more likely the cause of the poor engine performance than the fuel pump or fuse. In just the last week I have taken two Prius from dead to running by cleaning the MAF sensor. Both owners were convinced they needed a battery.

    I have not yet seen a blown fuse or bad fuel pump in hundreds of Prius.
     
    Cody26 and Raytheeagle like this.
  11. Cody26

    Cody26 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2018
    86
    18
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    I see. I can not interpret the results from the results but they were 4.48, 4.42, 4.45, 4.45 and 4.6 on P3191 frame data.
     
  12. Cody26

    Cody26 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2018
    86
    18
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    Thanks. Btw how to fast charge the hybrid battery? Is it while on parking P?
     
  13. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    5,982
    3,781
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Yes but it would be less likely the sensor became too fouled up to run while not running. It was a working vehicle that failed to start after messing around with the HV battery and aux battery. A dirty MAF sensor will definitely cause these problems but you'd notice it (hopefully) beforehand and the poor performance DTC should be logged independently before a no start is logged as well.
     
  14. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    9,371
    4,394
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two

    He said forced charge not fast. When you get the engine running put the car in D and then with left foot on the brake push the accelerator with your Right foot. While watching the mfd make sure you see battery charging lines from the engine To the battery.

    Some posters recommend flooring the gas but just pushing the pedal a little gets the charging lines to work
    For me but your battery might require more engine power. Just sit there power braking it till you see some blue bars populate the battery meter on the mfd.
     
    Cody26 likes this.
  15. Cody26

    Cody26 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2018
    86
    18
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    I could figure out where relay is located. But I can't go beyond to test it. Any guidelines?
    There are only short a couple of videos on youtube.
    Could you help me with that?
     
  16. Hybrid Battery Exchange

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    66
    80
    0
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    This! Here's some anecdotes so this issue does not get understated:

    3 days ago a customer called frantic that his car stalled and the hybrid battery drained as he tried to make it somewhere safe. Whenever he restarts the car, 2006 Prius, it sounds like it's knocking eventually failing to start. Went over the basics with him, turns out he's an airplane mechanic and has been maintaining the car to a high standard, skipped straight ahead to the MAF sensor, he cleaned it and the car started running just fine. He called back a few minutes ago, saying he bought a new sensor just in case but the car has been running fine ever since.

    About a month ago I had another customer who brought in his battery into the shop because he wanted it rebuilt, 2007 Prius, his vehicle had quit on the side of the road. Battery was drained, down to 190 volts (unusual since he claimed the car ran just a few weeks ago). Rebuilt the battery and went to put it in for him, the car wouldn't start after I was finished. Checked the usual, fuel, fuses, etc, nothing out of the ordinary. Cleaned the throttle body and MAF and it ran perfectly.

    2012 Prius Vee, Jiffy Lube overfilled the oil, car quit on the side of the road 10-15 miles later and limped until the battery drained. Car went to a Toyota dealer in Portland. They replaced the intake manifold and a few other parts and couldn't get the car started. In their infinite wisdom they swapped the ECM with another working Prius V they had in their shop at the time (this was known later when the VIN on the car did not match the VIN of the ECM during an emissions test). The dealer, after charging $1900 came back with the car has a bad hybrid battery, $4400 to proceed with diagnostics! Car had 44,000 miles and was only 4 years old. The car was towed to my shop, they over discharged the battery and tried to rip off the customer for a cost of another one. I charged and cycled the battery a few times, no weak modules whatsoever. Threw the battery back in the car and attempted to start it, no dice. I connected my scan tool and viewed live data, noticed the MAF volume was 0.6 GPM, that's low... Ran the same test on a regular 3rd gen 6.x GPM. Swapped the sensors and the car ran perfectly, almost 3 years later it still does.
     
  17. Cody26

    Cody26 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2018
    86
    18
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    How do you guys check e.g. relay? Do you have to use techstream or some sort of?
    I don't want to kill the hybrid battery to run the car in order to use the techstream.
     
  18. Cody26

    Cody26 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2018
    86
    18
    0
    Location:
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    Guys,

    I don't want to kill the hybrid battery. How do I check the relays then?
    I called a couple of places and they told me they have to run the car in order to figure out.
     
  19. Hybrid Battery Exchange

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    66
    80
    0
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    You check the relay out of the car by checking for continuity between the pins that should remain open and then apply 12v to activation pins and see if it closes. You have to read the top of the relay to see which are which, typically the thickest prongs carry the current when relay is activated and the thinner prongs are used to activate it with a 12v signal.

    Here's a very simple guide: 3 Ways to Test a Relay - wikiHow
     
  20. Skibob

    Skibob Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    2,909
    1,479
    0
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Sounds like something you should do when doing a tune up (changeing plugs). I clean the MAS every time I tune up my 4Runner.

    Is there a procedure here on PC?
     
Loading...