TrueDelta reliability numbers on Volt

Discussion in 'Chevrolet Volt' started by Former Member 68813, Apr 23, 2014.

  1. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    Very awful.

    Volt vs. Prius Reliability

    I was eying Volt as my next car, but not so sure anymore.
     
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Oh boy ... that looks like an argument waiting to happen. I don't know squat about that website - but how they can compare the Prius with its much longer track record, to a car thats only been out a couple years in any quantity - that is beyond me.
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    'one day found all 4 windows down and engine running' i think his wife punked him.:p
     
  4. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    True delta is run by a statistician who knows his trade. To answer your question, it does not take a big sample to show significant differences. However, repairs vary widely in cost and importance so believe the numbers but be skeptical of what they mean. Some repairs are just little annoyances, some are new model defects easily corrected, and some imply a money pit or early car demise. You have to be willing to dive into the details to gain useful insight.

    I can give some examples from the land of Prius:
    • Prius took a hit in I think 2004-5 from customer complaints related to the fuel tank bladder. The problem boiled down to not being able to use the fast flow rate to fill up in cold weather.
    • Another, this time from CR: 12v batteries started to crap out after 4 years of use, but the 12v was grouped with the traction battery so for a while it appeared as though the FUD about early and expensive traction battery repair was correct.
    • Or consider the inverter coolant pump in the Prius. True defect, but to a person like me insignificant in the overall scheme of things because it amounted to an ~ $80 DIY preventive maintenance replacement since I did not bother to take advantage of the TSB. Free repair for the asking.
     
    #4 SageBrush, Apr 23, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2015
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  5. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Oh boy, wait'll this pops up on Volt Forums.
     
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  6. -1-

    -1- Don

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    :)I think it's fair to say that the Toyota Prius is reliable. It will be interesting how the Volt folks respond.
     
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  7. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Denial, as usual.
     
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  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The underlined might be the case here from what I could see as a non-subscriber. The repeat offender seemed to be problems with the plug door. We all know problems are more likely with the first year, but it can take up to 3 years for all those teething problems are taken care of.
    Maybe he just forget to turn the car off.

    Had a summer job in the QC lab at a nitrocellulose factory. Every hour we had to pick the samples up along a 1.5 loop around the plant. I found that beater of a F150 idling a couple times I headed out to do so.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    oh no, i'm absolutely sure i turned it off, must be a problem with the car and i want it fixed or i want a new car!:rolleyes:
     
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  10. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    I, for one, am truly convinced by this report from 105 cars.

    I only have 15.3k total miles, 10.6k EV miles on mine. It has not hiccupped at all yet. Now I'm scared....

    EV miles are like getting a 70% OFF gas coupon!
     
  11. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    What nonsense.

    My extended family own two Prius we are delighted with, but last month bought a Honda Fit for light use in town. I expect it will put on about 4000 miles a year, and thus at current rates cost about $350 a year in fuel.

    We paid under $16,000 total. That is easily $10k less than you paid for the Volt even after the tax credit leaching. Assuming a modest 5% opportunity cost, my gas is free compared to the Volt, and I am $10k richer while the public is not $7.5k poorer.

    Even if you are foolish enough to ignore opportunity cost, your own numbers say you pay over 3 cents a mile for the petrol, and an additional amount for the electricity. I'll be wildly optimistic and say you average 4 cents a mile for electricity, so 7 cents a mile total for fuel. Forget the coupon, you already pay more for fuel than a Prius owner.

    Don't get me started on environmental considerations. Suffice to say the Volt is moronic. This is what I meant when I said that Volt owners are in denial. That, or they have trouble with 5th grade arithmetic.
     
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  12. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    Paid $23.6k.
    PiP's also get their "Tax Incentive" to help move us to a better world. But because the PiP is a (lame) PHEV and it only gets a $2500 tax incentive.

    My personal EV miles are even less than 70% OFF gas prices because I work for a progressive company that embraces the 'green' future and allows me to top off at work.
    At home I pay ~$0.03 per mile. Why is this nonsense?
    NONE of the electric dollars go to our good friends in OPEC.
    Depending on the recipe of your local electricity, environmentally speaking EV's can be way less polluting.
    They are always less expensive to drive per mile.
    The Volt, when burning gas on road trips, gets similar MPG as the Fit, correct?
    (correction: Volt gets better mpg hiwy)
    Do the math. At some point this futuristic vehicle has a payback.

    Sage, can I guess what your one and only 'News' network is?
     
  13. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    I think some people in cold weather areas had problems with the 2011-2013 electrically-actuated charge door not opening or opening slowly. I've never had that problem in my 2011 Volt perhaps because of my milder coastal climate.

    For 2014, the remote control charge door was replaced with a simpler manual door which should eliminate this repair issue.
     
  14. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Oh, that's an easy one: Key Fob butt dialing.
     
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  15. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    Moronic is a relative notion. I see plenty of cars on the road that are far more moronic than the Volt. Any car with a significant plugin capability often has options for environmentally cleaner energy that are not available to gasoline powered vehicles.

    A Volt driven on low CO2 emission electricity typically has a cleaner environmental profile than a non-plug Prius and the Prius sets a very high standard.
     
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  16. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

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    That depends of what is generating your 'lectricity. If coal is being used - "low carbon electricity" usage goes right down the toilet.

    DBCassidy

    What good is 70% off gas coupon (complete rubbish!) when the Volts' repair history is telling?

    DBCassidy
     
  17. gwmort

    gwmort Active Member

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    I had a 2003 Gen I prius I drove for 8 years, it was very reliable for the first 6 years but was giving me some trouble towards the end (although early on I tore through a few sets of tires til I read in the manual not to go over 84 mph).

    I had a 2011 volt I leased for three years. I had one problem with the charge cord that got swapped out for a new one without any hassle, and that was about it.

    I now have a new C-max Energi, and it is doing fine.

    Of the three the Volt was definitely the most fun to drive and the one I enjoyed the most. Both the volt and prius had far fewer maintenance issues than any ICE car I've ever had (not to mention fewer oil changes).
     
  18. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    DB,
    Here is how you tell the recipe of your local electricity: How clean is the electricity I use? - Power Profiler | Clean Energy | US EPA

    But, all my electric dollars stay local! Oh, and my car buying dollars too.
    Plus, I could make my own energy at home!

    Do the math. ~70% OFF, no engine maintenance with EV miles, (10k oil changes? Ha, a thing for old tech cars),
    the feel of a sporty, silent car! It's the future. The next gen PiP will probably be an EREV.

    But then there is that nagging 49 car "report". Is this an owner submitted reporting system?
    I guess I'll just have to wait for the repair bills to come rolling in after the warranty is up.
    So far nada...
     
  19. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    We have done the math ... many times. I did it for you in this thread. You pay 3-4 cents per mile for the petrol, and another 3+ cents per mile for the electricity. That is about the same as a Prius owner pays or more, depending how much your electricity costs.

    This is only one small part of the big picture, but we might as well get it right, no ?

    Does that include TTL ?
    Was the car new, with fewer than 100 miles on the odometer when you took possession ?

    I have not followed Volt pricing for a while now, so I may need an update ...
     
  20. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    $23.6k was the Out The Door price. TTL was all extra when I got it home. As with all cars.
    Correction: This OTD price includes the $7500 tax incentive that should drop on my any day now !!!
    It was from the 'demo pool', 2300 miles, still considered brand new for titling/taxes.
    So it was a bargain Volt with only one option, the rear sensors/camera.
    Not really a typical price. I just use it to show how inexpensively someone can get into this futuristic car.

    On my fast road trips I'm paying ~$0.08/mile for gas. 38-40 mpg/$3.30 gal.
    My Gen3 would get 45-48 mpg at the same speeds. $0.07/mile.
    This time of year I can drive EV, (which I do almost exclusively for weeks/months at a time), <$0.03/mile. No heat/AC usage.

    And as said, most my car purchase and fuel costs stay local.
    I like that part of the big picture, even without talking about the performance/fun factor differences between a Volt and a Prius.

    You guys can compare these differences for free by taking a test drive.
    Just don't listen to the car salesman. You know how to tell if they're lying, correct? Their lips are moving...
     
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