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Trying to Diagnose Check Hybrid System Failure Gen 3 Prius

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by jowapah, Dec 18, 2017.

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  1. Travis Decker

    Travis Decker Active Member

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    I didn't look at SOC busy today, but you are going to need to charge the HV battery soon!

    Look at Target Engine REV and Engine REV (sensor)......
     
    #41 Travis Decker, Dec 19, 2017
  2. jowapah

    jowapah Junior Member

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    I had recorded the start attempt and reviewing the Techstream Engine -ECU data, looks like the MG1 rotates to 3900 RPM, that noise in the video, but does not rotate the ICE. Anyone know what the interface between the MG1 and the 'lets say flywheel' is? I'm now thinking that my problem is in the MG/transaxle area.....
     
    #42 jowapah, Dec 19, 2017
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  3. Travis Decker

    Travis Decker Active Member

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    Picture....
     

    Attached Files:

    #43 Travis Decker, Dec 19, 2017
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  4. jowapah

    jowapah Junior Member

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    Well, does anyone know how to determine what Techstream may post for Transaxle / MG failures / problems?
    I don't see anything obvious in the data I have captured. Or what to look for in particular fields.
    I do have the luxury of pulling out my replacement engine and dropping in my old one with the cracked head or block,
    Going to be doing that next, and possibly pursue a used transaxle to drop in too....
     
    #44 jowapah, Dec 21, 2017
  5. Travis Decker

    Travis Decker Active Member

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    In techstream PID list

    MG1 torq is a requested signal from the computer for how much torque it's asking mg1 to produce.

    MG1 Torq exec. Is how much torque the motor actually produced

    MG1 rev. Is the amount of revolutions per minute for mg1.
     
    #45 Travis Decker, Dec 21, 2017
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  6. jowapah

    jowapah Junior Member

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    Thanks Travis.
    My question now is:

    What torque and RPMs are needed from MG1 to start the ICE? I'm wondering if my Hybrid battery strength is too low to provide appropriate current/voltage to the MG1 to rotate properly to start the ICE. I'm posting the Techstream output from one of my start attempts with the MG1 and Hybrid battery vals. Any insight on that?
     

    Attached Files:

    #46 jowapah, Dec 22, 2017
  7. Travis Decker

    Travis Decker Active Member

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    Look at SOC. State of charge. You need to charge your HV battery before going further......

    10% is not good
     
    #47 Travis Decker, Dec 22, 2017
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  8. jowapah

    jowapah Junior Member

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    Ahh, needed an experienced set of eyes on that data.... Right under my nose. Now, next question is to charge it? Would one of those grid chargers do that.? Someone mentioned that earlier, but I havent researched it yet
     
    #48 jowapah, Dec 22, 2017
  9. Travis Decker

    Travis Decker Active Member

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    I use the prolong one, works fine
     
    #49 Travis Decker, Dec 22, 2017
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  10. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    So what is the CPS for on the Prius ICE and what happens if it or its wiring fails? On a previous ICE car I had it had to be working for the ignition to know when to inject spark. When the Crankshaft Position Sensor wasn't working, there was no sound of attempting to start and the tach would not bounce. If the CPS was working and the problem was elsewhere the tack would slightly move off zero RPM. They were a common high mileage failure item thought to be from clutch dust.

    No idea how that correlates to the Prius start sequence.
     
    #50 mikefocke, Dec 22, 2017
  11. jowapah

    jowapah Junior Member

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    Before I go any further, I've ordered a Prolong Grid Charger to attempt to get my Hybrid battery in order.
    Can anyone point to a process for getting your battery balanced and charged?
    The SOC on mine is currently at 10% per the active data I recorded and posted earlier, and pointed out by Travis Decker a few posts ago. Not sure what I should have for total Voltage, but from something I read elsewhere, (although might be for a 04-09 Prius), Voltage for Hybrid battery was above 235V. So, mine being around 205-207 at the beginning of this saga, am I correct to assume that before I do any other drastic diagnosis reactions, that I should get the Hybrid battery addressed?
    Could the SOC of 10% be cause for the failure of MG1 attempting to start the ICE?

    Does anyone have active recording data of their MG1 Torque, MG1 Torque Exec and MG1 RPM from a successful start of their ICE for a Gen3 that I could compare to?

    Thanks to all!!
     
    #51 jowapah, Dec 23, 2017
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  12. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    If your battery is showing 205-207 volts, you’ll need to charge it up. Since the car is powered off of the electric side, it will need to have a higher voltage;).

    Once you get the harness hooked up, connect the charger and let it go until you get to 238-241 volts. Once this is achieved, let it sit for 4-6 hours at that voltage and then disconnect.

    There are instructions on the Hybrid Automotive website. They are useful:).

    Keep us posted (y).
     
    #52 Raytheeagle, Dec 23, 2017
  13. jowapah

    jowapah Junior Member

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    Got my grid charger yesterday, and got Hybrid battery charged up. Attempted starting vehicle, and same failure, and symptom of whining MG
    spinning (I think). Epic Fail.
    Will post Hybrid Control Output in a while, need to break it up as the file size is too big.

    I'm going to ask again, Does anyone have data on how fast the MG1 should spin RPMs on startup attempt. It is higher here with charged up battery, but not by much from last week when it was about 3900 rpm. Today it was 4800-4300 rpm.

    Found some references to P0A0F due to seized engine or Transmission. Anyone had that experience before and had the sound sysmptoms I'm having? Here's link to my youtube vid again.


    Thanks
     
    #53 jowapah, Dec 27, 2017
  14. jowapah

    jowapah Junior Member

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    Here's the Hybrid-Control Output from the latest start attempt
     

    Attached Files:

    #54 jowapah, Dec 27, 2017
  15. CalgarySimon

    CalgarySimon Junior Member

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    Any update, jowapah? Curious what did you find out & how you solved the problem. Was it the 12V battery?
     
    #55 CalgarySimon, Jul 19, 2018
  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The OP's post 36 had a video (same one reposted in #53). The video shows two start attempts, and the camera is aimed at the crank pulley for the second one, but the resolution is too poor for me to say for sure whether the crank is turning or not.

    However, we also have the OP's words from #35:

    Problem had to be mechanical. In the video you hear MG1 spin but hear no sounds of engine compression, and have the OP's word that the engine was visibly not turning. And the car, obviously, wasn't moving. The nature of the "power split" planetary gear set is, that can't happen. :) If one of those three things is turning, MG1 in this case, then at least one of the other two must also move ... the engine, or the drive wheels ... or both.

    So either a gear or shaft failed inside the transaxle, or the friction torque damper at the flywheel (like a clutch but with no release mechanism) got loose. I might hold the latter as more likely, as there was work done to replace the ICE ... there wouldn't have been much reason to go inside the transaxle, but the flywheel and torque damper were probably involved in that work.

    Won't really know how everything turned out unless jowapah comes back....

    -Chap
     
    #56 ChapmanF, Jul 19, 2018
  17. Jamesmlemay

    Jamesmlemay Member

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    too bad he didn't come back... Looks just like my problem.
     
    #57 Jamesmlemay, Dec 7, 2018
  18. Jamesmlemay

    Jamesmlemay Member

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    Jowapag please come back lol
     
    #58 Jamesmlemay, Dec 19, 2018
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how many miles on your car?
     
    #59 bisco, Dec 19, 2018
  20. Jamesmlemay

    Jamesmlemay Member

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    If you are asking me I have 118k
     
    #60 Jamesmlemay, Dec 19, 2018
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