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Featured TSS-P cuts accidents in half

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Aug 28, 2017.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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  2. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I suspect this is a 'shot across the bow' at the USA based IIHS. With great fanfare, they announced their test setups for collision avoidance in 2013 but they've been a little quiet. So I looked up our Prius Prime: 2017 Toyota Prius Prime
    [​IMG]

    Also,
    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
    #3 bwilson4web, Aug 28, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
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  4. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    One nit to pick: While it may reduce one specific kind of accident by 90%, I doubt it reduces all accidents by 50%.
    Each technology reduces some accidents occurrence but none reduce ALL accidents occurrence.
     
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  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I appreciate the technical details of the comment. I would suggest posting some accident statistics that might shed light on the different classes of accidents, their frequency and outcomes.

    Many years ago, I was tracking Prius fatal accidents, the only ones that received significant media coverage. Unfortunately, we had a difference of opinion about the worth of tracking fatal accidents and I am a guest here. But before my 'vacation', I noticed a large number of fatal, single car accidents that looked like a frontal collision without brakes.

    I lost an uncle in a single car accident and a fellow Marine in another single car accident. Although modern cars have seat belts, air bags, and stronger, energy absorbing fronts, it is the velocity squared that increases the killing energy. TSS-P and collision avoidance technology addresses what separates a killing crash from a survivable one.

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    Single car fatal accidents may be a poster child of the issue. Lets imagine that the car can watch you as the driver and determine you are too impaired to Drive (sleepy, alcohol or other drug impaired, too distracted by your phone or kids to watch for other traffic, etc)
    This should actually be very easy. No manufacturer is going to voluntarily implement this as telling your customers they can't do as they want loses customers. So attempts to reduce Single car fatal accidents look outside the car, are you able to stay in your lane?, are you slowing when appropriate? It is politically safer to place blame outside the car, even if it is not as effective.

    Some large part of 'self driving cars' is a weasel way of taking control from drivers who are already out of control.
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    When I drove from Rhode Island to Huntsville, I had the Prime 'reminders' that I needed to take a break as I approached Roanoke VA. My understanding is it uses the lane following warnings to send the alert. But I was already driving on "low gas" and hadn't studied 'out of gas' and 'out of charge' states of the Prius Prime.

    I took an educated guess that based on our Gen-1 and Gen-3, it would be at least one gallon. So I pulled off at an estimated 0.75 gallons burned on "low gas" and subsequent testing revealed I still had the last 0.3-0.4 gallons.

    After refueling, a biology break, and caffeine boost, I was back on the road. I don't remember any subsequent warnings as the closer I got to home, the happier and more alert I became.

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Probably not.
    According to the NHTSA 40% of accidents are rear end collisions. If your car stops 90% of these, and half are the result of the other car (which probably doesn't have this if you are reducing 90% ;-) then you only reduce 45% of the 40% or 18% of accidents. A 18% reduction of insurance would be nice, but ... I doubt the insurance companies will provide this for you without many years of data. rear end collisions account for about 5% of vehicle deaths in the US. Many are low speed fender benders. Definitely if some inexpensive sensor and chips and expensive software can prevent these accidents and deaths its a good thing, but .... better tech and decision making are needed for the other 95%. nvidia and intel/mobileye are working on making the chips less expensive. The sensors are here. The hugely expensive software is still being developed, but once its here, it doesn't cost more to put it on more units.
     
    #8 austingreen, Aug 29, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
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  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I went to the NHTSA to see if they have any metrics on 'collision avoidance' systems and not having much luck, yet. That is one reason why I mentioned this is Toyota's 'shot across the bow.' But I did find an old favorite about hybrid-pedestrian accidents.

    Source: https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812371

    Now they continue to stand by an overall 20% higher accident rate for hybrid-pedestrian accidents ... using the same data range of a 16 state database. But they added, finally, a table that I'd reported before:
    [​IMG]
    I consider 'death' counted across the USA to be a more severe outcome than the myopic counting of hybrid-pedestrian accidents from just 16 states voluntarily reporting injury data. Our hybrids are not killing pedestrians and the injury hypothesis comes from the same source used before.

    Toyota's TSS-P became universal in all but one Prius trim in 2016. Time means we will soon have fatal accidents to correlate with TSS-P. However, the BMW i3-REx has had optically based, collision avoidance since 2014 in some trims. We may be able to see statistically valid, preliminary FARS (Fatal Accident Reporting System) even though diluted by not all trims.

    Happily, the NHTSA has not been sleeping: https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/812400_pcambenefitsreport.pdf

    Granted this is a model paper derived from accident data, still it shows expected, projected trends. But I'm patient enough to wait as every day, the statistical data from actual TSS-P vs not-TSS-P vehicles accumulates.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #9 bwilson4web, Aug 29, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
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  10. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    The Toyota study seemd to be for vehicles with TSS-P and BSM.
    BSM was added to the Prius earlier this year (May?). My 2017 purchased last October does not have BSM or RCTA,. :(
     
  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    ICS, not BSM. BSM just blinks a light. ICS supplements TSS-P (well PCS) with low speed obstacle avoidance as well as pedal misapplication.
     
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  12. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    The biggest expense is LIDAR. (Some companies are saying you don't need it). Overall, the initial costs for the next 5 years are suppose to be about $5000 for all the hardware, based on info I've seen from analysts reports.

    Mike
     
  13. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    I must have misremembered. Thanks for the correction.
     
  14. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    The number of cars with collision avoidance systems is so low today that you will not see a good statistical sample in the 2015 data set, which IIRC is the last one available. Also I doubt that police departments are noting whether vehicles have such systems in reports that the NHTSA scans.

    NHTSA does work to get more of these systems in cars. It would be wonderful if getting them in even 25% of cars reduced deaths by 1%. Such systems can overcome human factors such as hitting the accelerator instead of the brakes. I thought Toyota's shot across the bow of the NHTSA was when they hired regulators to lobby against brake accelerator interlocks. Akio Toyoda's rise to CEO killed those bad old days. Toyota's safety systems and quality has increased markedly with the change of top management. The country does have a lot of old and a lot of distracted drivers. These safety systems can help.

    You are preaching to the choir here.
    Hybrids safer for drivers, less so for pedestrians, study finds? - latimes
    I think your problem is really with IIHS, which pushed and promoted this false story. NHTSA just created the raw data, then got wagged by the dog of the insurance institute. A shot across the bow of the IIHS has long been needed, as it has promoted heavier, more energy hungry vehicles, and worked against cafe standards.


    Now if the hypothesis is hybrids hurt more pedestrians and must be belled - IIHS here - then why are so many pedestrians getting killed by non hybrid cars? IIHS I'm sure has a snarky answer.

    With most car safety systems, we have seen the human element get worse, because they could with the car protecting them more. With these new technologies, when they improve enough, I don't think bad driving will hurt as much. In 2020 we should have 2018 data, and there will be enough cars on the road with these safety systems to see how well they are working. By that year, software should be very good, and sensors and chips cheap enough, so that all new cars may get the tech, if the stats are as good as we hope.
     
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  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I'm doing this from 'old man memory' but I seem to remember the VIN numbers, when available, were part of the raw, FARS accident data. With VIN, we can usually research the options. I had to use the raw data when I did my analysis ... eight years ago. Happily, I notice the NHTSA has made some substantial improvements including more vehicle population data from Polk registrations.

    FYI, another early study: https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/812247b-lanedeparturewarningsystems.pdf

    "Large-Scale Field Test of Forward Collision Alert And Lane Departure Warning Systems"

    Bob Wilson
     
    #15 bwilson4web, Aug 30, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
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  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    The technology prevents you rear-ending someone, correct? I wonder if some tech could give warning if you're about to be rear-ended? Rear facing radar that monitors approaching cars, does the math, sounds an alarm, and/or other measures.
     
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  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    [​IMG]
    Bob Wilson
     
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  18. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    This sounds like a GREAT idea, but the typical scenario in my experience is that you are stopped dead for a traffic jam on an Interstate and you watch the vehicle approaching from the rear come roaring at you at full speed with no sign that they are aware of the situation or trying to stop. So what could the automated system do in addition to a dashboard warning light?
    Pre-tightening the seatbelts to reduce inside-the-cabin collisions would be one thing, but what else? What do you folks do when you are actually watching in the rear view mirror a potential rear end collision developing? If I have left enough space between our car and the car in front , I take my foot off the brakes hoping that easing the acceleration of my car during the crash will lessen the effective peak g-forces inside our cabin, but I am not sure this is a correct move. Other ideas?
     
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    1. Very bright, flashing light!
    2. Fire the squib.
    3. Trigger the rear facing dash cam.
    4. Bumper mounted, Takata airbags facing approaching traffic.
    Bob Wilson
     
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  20. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    Isn't #4, the Takata airbag idea a real-world implementation of the claymore mine?
     
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