Two things that made the Gen 1 Plug-in Prius great that are missing in the Prius Prime

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Boyelectric, Mar 28, 2016.

  1. Boyelectric

    Boyelectric Junior Member

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    My 2012 PiP had two things going for it, that made it great... two things made me buy it, instead of a Volt, at the time:

    1) seating for five

    2) cargo capacity

    The new Prime has seating for four. Even Chevy figured this out, making the new Volt with seating for five. Seriously? Why not just make it a two seater, can call it a Honda CRX. I bet you could squeeze a few more MPG out of it.

    Cargo capacity. This one factor alone, was the driving force behind my buying my PiP in the first place. While in town, I usually barely scrape out a trip to work, where I plug in, and then a trip back home, where I plug in, on the weekends my family of four, plus a dog, go places. Usually, we need every single cubic inch of the over 21 cu feet in the PiP. EVERY OTHER PHEV at the time had less than half the cargo available. Only the C-Max offered anything close, and all things being equal, I would rather drive the Toyota vs a Ford. That being said, reducing the cargo space to make the Prius Prime basically be just like every other PHEV, just sank the boat. Why bother? a few more MPG, really??

    When I sell my PiP, I will be replacing it with the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.

    Sorry, I guess I am done. Toyota has already verbalized that they don't consider plug in cars to be the future. This marginalized offering just confirmed it.
     
  2. sillylilwabbit

    sillylilwabbit Active Member

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    Toyota reminds of of Apple iPhones.


    When Prius/iPhones came out, it changed the industry.


    Now, Nothing revolutionary, and just incremental advances.

    22 miles range should have been PiP 1.

    Toyota has competition now. Get with the program Toyota!




    iPhone ?
     
    #2 sillylilwabbit, Mar 29, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
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  3. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    If those factors are deal breakers for you?
    Then they are deal breakers.

    Personally they wouldn't be for me.

    The Mitsubishi Outlander release has once again be delayed. Which would temper my desire to be in the first wave of buyers for that product.

    For me? Given the choice between a Mitsubishi product or a Toyota product, I'm going with the Toyota product.
    But if the Prius Prime is not for you?
    Then enjoy whatever vehicle you decide on next.
     
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  4. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    Going from a pip to an outlander? Ok you may get more space and ev miles, but one of the other factors that drew me toward the pip was the high mpg hv rating as well, I don't think the outlander will match that.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's going to be a major factor in sales, imo. i want one, but i want my cargo space and bench seat two. i wonder if the cup holder could be yanked and filled in flush. then would be down to one strike.
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It's too early to call it on cargo space without official numbers. Yes, the Prime loses over the gen 4, but the gen 4 gained five cubic feet of cargo, EPA, over the gen 3.
     
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  7. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    That's interesting.
    Of course everyone has a right to their own opinion, about what they want to own.
    But I'm kind of surprised at the angst the 4 seat PiP with the slightly reduced cargo capability has caused.

    IMO...if you're a family of 5, or routinely transporting 5 people, The Standard Prius isn't the best choice for you in any configuration. I'm thinking most Standard Prius Owners don't transport 5 people very often anyway. Yes, I'd want something bigger if I was routinely transporting 5 people, but I'd want something bigger than the Standard Prius and that's with the supposed 5 seating capability.

    The reduced cargo capacity?

    Well you still have the fold down seats, I'm thinking the hauling capacity is still descent.
    And the change is based on accommodating a larger battery. Which gives you the benefits of larger range, and stronger EV capabilities. I'd be willing to accept that, for those benefits.

    I have to admit. I like The Prius Prime, wish I could own one.
    I also admit, the design of the immovable cup holder in the back, and the somewhat Frankensteined like look of the load floor when the seats are folded down, are design elements that look like they were rushed or could of been made better.

    But they wouldn't be deal breakers to me.
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    might not be a deal breaker for me either. first impressions though...
     
  9. Redpoint5

    Redpoint5 Senior Member

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    What is the anticipated price of the Mitsubishi compared with the Prime?

    Do the rear seats in the Prime fold flat with the cargo floor, or is there a pronounced ledge?

    A deal breaker for me would be the inability to sleep 2 people over 6' tall in the back. I like the option to sleep in the car if caught in a downpour during a road trip.

    I wouldn't be so negative about the Prime only having 4 seats if the middle portion of the rear seat were still padded and upolstered. I fairly regularly have a 3rd person in the back seat, and they like to spread out and take naps on longer trips. Rarely would I have 5 people in the car, and on those rare occasions, I could just have someone sit in the cargo area. It wold probably be just about as comfortable as sitting in the middle seat. It would be legal in Oregon and Washington where seat belt laws only require that all available seat belts be used, not that everyone wear a seat belt.

    I agree that what sets the Prius apart from the competition is utility and fuel economy. Forgoing the 5th seat compromises utility. I will likely skip this iteration of the Prius and instead replace my Acura TSX (Euro Accord) with a BEV (Leaf, Spark, Bolt, etc).
     
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    An issue sited with four seats when it was revealed that the Volt only that was with using child seats. The safest place for a baby or toddler during a crash would be a rear facing child seat in the middle spot of the back seat. That isn't possible with four seats, and the nature of the rear facing child seat means having it in one of the side seats could hinder leg room and incline of the person sitting in front of it.

    While five seats in the Prius wouldn't work long term for adults, it will work fine with smaller children. People don't have to get a minivan the instant that they breed.:)

    Up in the air with both of them. I'd have said the Outlander would have been more before the Prime unveiling.

    The Prime cargo area is raised higher than the rear seats when they are down. There isn't a ledge though. The floor has ramps connecting the differing heights.

    Might still work if you don't mind your feet or head being lower.

    If not mentioned in this thread, it was in another with the same discussion. The 2 rear seats, but sit a bench disappeared because of lawsuits. If the middle are reasonably looks like a usable seat, then someone will use it. Then liability will likely fall on the car manufacturer if the person using the middle seat that is not a seat gets hurt or killed. That's why rear bench seats have a middle seat belt even if there was no way 3 adults would actually fit side by side.

    For those thinking of the Prime, and concerned about rear passenger comfort, they do look like they recline.
     
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  11. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    Family of 6 now, but for the past 3 years family of 5 and we have been using Prius on almost any trip imaginable. Used the PiP for a huge camping trip over 300 miles away. Loved it. The back wasn't "squished" (car seat in middle). It wasn't comfortable by any means but wasn't bad either.

    And yes, a person sprawled out in the back is also an option. But utility in carrying the family is crucial. Right now we need a larger vehicle but we are often split up anyway.

    I'm looking for: EV Range with great MPG in HV mode seating 5 (used to think this was going to be Toyota). Ioniq looks cool now.

    We live in an interesting year which could define the auto-industry.

    • Hyundai releasing it's own hybrid in it's own system available in plugin, HV only and Electric...a first.
    • FCA (formerly Chrysler who made the the minivan popular) is releasing its first Hybrid/Plugin Minivan!
    • Mitsubishi releasing it's first plugin SUV (I thought this was going to be a 7 seater...guess not, mpg might not be good also).
    • Then normal gas engines are improving across the board.
    • Rav4 Hybrid seems awesome and at the right price point.
    • Will the HiHy use LiIon? Will mpg go 30+?
    I'm excited about the Ioniq and Pacifica. I still think full EV is not quite there yet...PHV is the way to go!
     
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  12. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Legit point.
    I wasn't really thinking of Child Seat positioning.

    If I was a parent of a child or children in the child seat age range, that COULD be a deal breaker for me.
     
  13. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Knew a friend who had the convertible, and named it Gigantor.
    A case of beer would fit between the radiator and grill.
     
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  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Toyota changed the way they rated the cargo area. In reality, it's closer to 2 cu ft (compared to no spare tire). If it's apples-to-apples (with spare tire), the difference is about 1 cu ft.

    It's no different than the Gen 1 Volt when people used the 4-seat argument against it (and pointed to the Gen 1 PiP as having 5 seats). Now the tables have turned. The Prime's rear centre console is low enough that you could slide from one side to the other. The footroom is still there so you can lay things on the floor. IIRC, the 1G Volt had a high tunnel for the battery so it was difficult to get from one side to the other at the back.

    The cargo floor is higher so there's a slope downwards to the rear seats (Toyota has provided covers to cover the gap). It's basically the reverse of the Gen 4 without a spare tire.

    Have you tried sitting in the Volt's 5th seat? It's more comfortable in the 5th seat of a Yaris than a Volt.

    [​IMG]

    Arguably, it's good for a car seat but not for adults.
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Yes, the gen1 Volt had a large tunnel for the battery. Which I guess gave the rear seats a flying bridge feel.

    Without that tunnel, and the smaller rear armrest, I think many on viewing the Prime will be scratching their heads about the lack of a fifth seat. The not wanting to increase weight with the required structural support isn't an obvious answer, and it is likely something most car salespersons won't know about the car. It will look like Toyota choose 4 seats just because or to further justify the higher cost of a more luxury model.

    If did know about the weight, they'll ask why no battery tunnel in the center to save the cargo space, and move the battery pack weight towards the center? Toyota didn't want to pay GM for patents?

    Which is all only car in that size class actually needs. Even getting into the low end midsize like the Prius, the fifth seat is more 4+1 in how it will most often be used.

    Aside from possible costs for redoing crash testing, is there any reason that the Prime, or any 4 seater with a wide enough rear armrest, couldn't have LATCH anchors for a middle car seat? I don't see a baby plus seat exceeding the structure's weight limits.
     
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  17. Redpoint5

    Redpoint5 Senior Member

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    I never ride in a back seat since I'm always driving. That said, anyone in the back seat of my car is getting a free ride. I'm not interested in the comfort of those getting a free ride.

    I'm probably fine with the new car being 4 seats only, but I don't like it out of principle. They could have put a 5th seat in and then had a disclaimer about total passenger weight. There are already disclaimers about total passenger and cargo weight with any car you purchase, so this wouldn't be a new idea or open them up to litigation.
     
  18. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    True. I'm sure the marketing training videos will mention the lack of a 5th seat as a "premium feature" - luxurious comfort for 2 rear seat passengers with cupholders and a storage box. I wonder if the individual seats are wider than on the Liftback.

    The Prime is built on the Liftback's TNGA platform. You can't just change the chassis to include a tunnel without making costly modifications to the chassis. This is why a dedicated model is better (The Prius has shown this over the Civic Hybrid. The Volt is now an example over the Prime/PiP). If you look from an engineer's perspective, it's easier to just plop a rectangular battery between the wheels from the rear seat to the rear bumper.

    Well I'd rather have the storage box than the LATCH anchors. Also, it sets up Toyota for liability issues if someone sits in the middle (even though there's no seatbelt) and a collision occurs such that the person is severely injured.

    It's not about total passenger weight per se. It's about hitting that 52mpg target while getting 22 miles AER. If Toyota allowed a 5th person to be carried, then it'll have to account for the extra payload. (Rather than taking the easy route and subtract it from the cargo weight limit). To do so, requires additional structural reinforcements to the body or chassis to ensure the car can handle 5 people plus cargo. That extra weight of reinforcements means Toyota may not be able hit that 52mpg mark and they thought having the same hybrid mpg as the Liftback was more important (to them and to us) than having a 5th seat.

    I'm guessing if enough people complain, they may offer a 5-seat option but at an extra cost due to the additional material.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    interesting. but if they're going upscale with 4 seats, shouldn't the back have climate controls and usb ports?
     
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  20. dalmore

    dalmore Junior Member

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    Uber/Lyft require seatbelts for 5 so Prime is not an option for me since it's not Uber/Lyft eligible. I'm sad.
     
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