Ummm... Ok... That's enough... Stop buying macs...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vtie @ Oct 26 2007, 10:37 AM) [snapback]530709[/snapback]</div>

I think we've managed to reach some common ground on many of the points (or at least, we're talking about the same things now and not getting interpretations of work versus home and such confused ). However, i have to disagree with this one. A fresh Windows XP install prompts you to create a user for yourself, and by default gives that user complete Admin privileges. It may not be the actual admin account, but it can do everything. With OSX, you create and Admin password, and a first account for yourself - however, this account doesn't have complete and total control. You can control your workspace, but if you want to update programs, install new programs, or change system settings (or modify system files) you need to put in the admin password. By default, this is much, much more secure - Add to that the application sandboxing and random addressing OSX introduced with Leopard and it's going to make it even more secure. To the best of my knowledge, buffer overflow attacks, in general, will still be successful in Vista - but they won't be in OSX.

I just saw this article:
http://www.news.com/Report-U.S.-tops-list-...ml?tag=nefd.top

In it, security firm Sophos describes how horrible the US is at spamming, accounting for over 1/4 of the total amount of spam on the internet. Nearly all those spam messages come from compromised computers that had inadequate security - every report i've ever read on botnets points to Windows computers making up very nearly all of them.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Oct 26 2007, 06:21 PM) [snapback]530723[/snapback]</div>

Why not? As long as we stay open minded...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Oct 26 2007, 06:21 PM) [snapback]530723[/snapback]</div>

Yes, that sums up the weakness of many Windows installations. Most people never take the effort of making a properly configured account. And one indeed should blame MS for not making this the obvious, default choice. For many home users, this would avoid a lot of pain and suffering. But then again, ease of use for non-computer-educated people was never their strong point. Maybe again a sign of the business roots of the system.
This is one of the points where Vista differs. If you follow the default installation flow, you will end up with a restricted account.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Oct 26 2007, 06:21 PM) [snapback]530723[/snapback]</div>

In fact, Vista also offers Address Space Layout Randomization (ASLR). Together with the DEP/NX feature of the CPU, this forms a very robust protection agains buffer overflow attacks. In addition this this, the Vista code has been compiled with a stack based overrun check that by itself already do the job in case your older CPU doesn't support that feature (and, oh horror, several computer manufacturers turned it out by default in the BIOS!). Vista also offers sandboxing through their virtualization mechanism. MS has come a long way, but they are working on the security issues.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Oct 26 2007, 06:21 PM) [snapback]530723[/snapback]</div>

I have covered that issue in detail already in previous posts. There are reasons why this is logical. If you are interested in my point of view on this, you are invited to browse through them.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Oct 26 2007, 08:46 AM) [snapback]530711[/snapback]</div>

In the example I gave, both the WiFi and wired Ethernet were crawling due to what I can only surmise (since I did not have access to the network console) was an excessive number of users online at the same time sending/receiving.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Oct 26 2007, 08:46 AM) [snapback]530711[/snapback]</div>

Think of the Blackberry 8703 as a broadband wireless network connection. Any updates to the Blackberry are downloaded when it is not in use (typically at around 1:00 a.m. local time where ever I am at when the download occurs). If I am using the device at 1:00 a.m., the download seems to wait until I am finished using the broadband connection.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Oct 22 2007, 08:43 PM) [snapback]529066[/snapback]</div>

:lol:

That was very inventive. I like that line.

 

"And to your left folks, you can see a classic Mac vs. PC thread in its native habitat."

I'll try to put it in terms the Mac users can understand without using distracting words like Microsoft, PC, or Windows.

You didn't lock your car doors and your car gets stolen, are you going to blame the car manufacturer for the theft? (BTW, I do know the Prius with SKS will automatically lock the doors.)

-or-

You read the sign that says "No Diving", but you dive anyways and crack open your head. Are you going to blame the makers of the sign for not designing some kind of "possible idiot diver arrest system"?

It's not Apple's or Microsoft's responsibility to make sure the end user has common sense. Just like it's not Toyota's fault your engine exploded because you didn't read the manual and change the oil.

And for those of you confused by all of the versions of vista:
Home- no flashy graphics, limited networking options, no windows media center (this version is pointless)
Premium- everything the typical home user needs, doesn't have corporate level networking or drive encryption, has windows media center
Business- has everything except windows media center
Ultimate- combines premium and business while adding (mostly pointless) extras. This is the version I use.

(BTW, Vista can be had for significantly less than retail by purchasing an OEM copy online. Same software without the stupid waste-of-plastic box.)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hv74656 @ Oct 27 2007, 12:03 AM) [snapback]531090[/snapback]</div>

Your analogy (both of them) is a bit flawed. No one is leaving the PC with OS X (otherwise known as a Mac) out to get stolen. The analogy is more along the lines of parking your car on a public street and someone who got dropped on their head as a child (or otherwise is basically a first class jerk and shouldn't be allowed out in polite society) goes and vandalizes your car. To extended the analogy a bit, think of the Mac as being covered with an anti-graffiti coating where the ink/paint/whatever doesn't stick and the tires are harder to puncture. The Windows PC requires you to park the car in a garage.

 

So why wouldn't this work on a Mac?

Other than that 90% of the recipients won't be able to run it?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(alanh @ Oct 31 2007, 10:35 PM) [snapback]533247[/snapback]</div>

It would. Classic "Trojan Horse".

But that 90% factor seems to go a long way.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Oct 26 2007, 09:21 AM) [snapback]530723[/snapback]</div>

I just installed Leopard. Am I the first one here?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Oct 26 2007, 10:29 AM) [snapback]530765[/snapback]</div>

That of course is always a risk. I think my point was that I experience far more problems connecting to wi-fi than to ethernet. There seem to be more compatibility issues with wi-fi. Too many hardware differences??? I don't know. Whatever the reason, ethernet seems to be always the same, whereas wi-fi is always different, and may or may not work with a given card.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hv74656 @ Oct 27 2007, 12:03 AM) [snapback]531090[/snapback]</div>

Your analogies are all wrong, and you are wrong about SKS.

SKS does not automatically lock the doors. You have to press the black button on the door handle to lock the doors. (Though there is an aftermarket device that will lock the doors automatically when the car is traveling above a set speed.)

But the computer security issue is not like a car that a driver neglects to lock the doors on:

Mac OS X is like a car that says to you, "You didn't lock the door." if you leave it without locking.

Windows is like a car that you can drive without using a key, and if you want to lock the door you have to buy three separate keys, each of which will only work for a week unless you phone in to update them, and after a year they quit working and you have to buy three new keys; and to use them you have to follow a complicated procedure which the average person does not understand.

Securing windows requires an understanding of the OS, and subscriptions to an AV program, a firewall program, and an anti-spyware program, all of which must be kept updated. And if a Windows computer is left off for a few months (perhaps a laptop used only for travel 2 or 3 times a year) it can take many hours to download and install all the security patches.

And to make matters worse, Microsoft has issued patches which caused some users so much grief that they no longer trust MS's patches, and don't download them.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Nov 1 2007, 02:59 AM) [snapback]533281[/snapback]</div>

I installed it the first day it came out on my four Macs. No problems. I even got the free t-shirt when I bought Leopard.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Nov 1 2007, 01:20 AM) [snapback]533285[/snapback]</div>

I didn't get a t-shirt, but I wouldn't have worn it anyway. I don't wear advertising if I can possibly help it.

I think I'll take this to the Leopard thread. I have some minor quibbles.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Nov 1 2007, 06:10 AM) [snapback]533338[/snapback]</div>

Pray tell, what are your quibbles? I am going to be purchasing Leopard this weekend (at least I was planning on purchasing it).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hv74656 @ Oct 27 2007, 02:03 AM) [snapback]531090[/snapback]</div>

You analogy's are pretty flawed... to go with the car one, OSX is like any normal car, locks included, while Windows, if you read the fine print, says "Locks sold separately".

The diving one... that doesn't even really apply. Are you trying to say that the OS's shoudl come with a sign that says "don't connect to the internet"?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Oct 27 2007, 05:36 AM) [snapback]531115[/snapback]</div>

It has to be a big garage, as Windows won't fit through a standard garage door.

Tom

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Nov 1 2007, 08:59 AM) [snapback]533406[/snapback]</div>

Yes, if the analogy were to be proportional to Windows' memory appetite, we would probably be at around a 4,000 square foot garage.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Nov 1 2007, 06:16 AM) [snapback]533340[/snapback]</div>

Go to this thread rather than taking the present one off topic.

Hopefully other will chime in as well. Overall, I have no regrets.

 

People who have been around for a while can't even get their eyes to focus consistently on threads like this.

Damn. Am I developing diabetes?

That Leopard thread looks promising though.

 

All right. Now you've gone and done it...

<blockquote>In a backhanded compliment to Apple Inc., online criminals are apparently so impressed with its scorching sales they are sending Macintosh computers an attack typically aimed at machines running Microsoft Corp.'s dominant Windows operating system.

The attack does not target a vulnerability in the Macintosh operating system.

Instead, it requires a user to approve the download, then enter his computer's administrator's password to continue, operations that raise red flags among sophisticated computer users.

Security researchers at Intego, which makes Macintosh antivirus software and discovered the scheme this week, said it underscores the mounting threats to Mac users as the machines grow in popularity.

Windows machines still dominate the PC market, but Apple, which for years commanded just 2 to 3 percent of the U.S. market, has now grown to command an 8 percent chunk, according to market researcher Gartner Inc.

"This is the first really malicious criminal malware (for Macs)," said Intego spokesman Peter James. "We've seen some proof-of-concept malware, we've seen some worms, but this is different."
</blockquote>
From this AP release.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ Nov 2 2007, 11:34 AM) [snapback]533888[/snapback]</div>

Which gets back to the old adage: "You can't fix stupid."

Tom

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ Nov 2 2007, 10:34 AM) [snapback]533888[/snapback]</div>

Whats really humorous is that it's targeting online porn seekers... Which just goes to show what's bound to happen to you when you think with the wrong "head"... :lol:

But seriously, the "malware" simply changes your DNS host - if your running Tiger, there is a posted fix (which is a little complicated, unfortunately)... in Leopard, it's absurdly easy to fix it! Show me one malware for Windows that can be fixed as easily as this one for Leopard...

check out the 15 dumbest Apple predictions of all time:
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/11/analysts-dont-k.html#

My favorite is:
"I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders." — Michael Dell in October 1997,as an immediate prelude to a renaissance that would see Apple ultimately eclipse Dell in size.