Unacceptable - Brake Actuator Assembly

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by normalstin, Oct 7, 2017.

  1. normalstin

    normalstin Junior Member

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    My dealings with Toyota this week have been nothing short of sheer nightmare.

    Toyota knows there is a systemic issue with the break actuator assembly in 2004-2009 model year Prius vehicles, and have issued a "Warranty Enhancement Program - ZG1" to extend the warranty coverage for repairs related to this part.

    So I bring my wife's 2009 Prius into Northridge Toyota with a clearly malfunctioning break actuator assembly as initially diagnosed by myself. When I pull up, Vincent Galicia (my service representative) immediately confirms my diagnosis based on the audible clues emanating from the car. But neither he, nor I are the experts, so to the shop it goes.

    Several hours later I receive a phone call from Vincent. The mechanics also confirm our diagnosis, but Mr. Galicia now informs me that Toyota will not be honoring the warranty enhancement, because there are no applicable warning lights illuminated on the dash. But he's kind enough to offer to have it fixed on my dime for approximately $2800 parts and labor.

    At this point I am very confused. There is a clear malfunction, confirmed by the fact that they're willing to take my money to fix it. But they will not honor their own warranty because of missing dash lights? Realizing Vincent Galicia & Northridge Toyota are proving completely ineffectual in helping (or are unwilling to), I decide to escalate the situation to the next level and contact the Toyota Customer Experience Center.

    After an hour on the phone with Leeze Agray (sp?) from Corporate, I am told that the verbiage of the warranty enhancement provides for coverage if an internal malfunction is found, lights or no. So she will be in contact with Northridge Toyota to work out the details. She is literally reading my case number for me to write down, and the call disconnects. No call back. So I have a case number, but I don't know what it is. Regardless, Mr. Galicia orders the part and is kind enough to provide a rental car in the meantime.

    I think my car is getting fixed.

    No word from either Toyota Customer Experience Center, or Northridge Toyota for over 24 hours. So I call Vincent. At this point he tells me that Toyota is still unwilling to honor the warranty. Again, I am confused, because after hours on the phone, a part ordered, a rental car provided, and nearing 4 days in their shop, they are not going to fix my car. Mr. Galicia literally tells me that my wife is to drive off the lot, with failing breaks, hoping they fail even further so that warning lights appear, but not so much that they cause an accident.

    I've attempted to reconnect with Leeze Agray from Corporate, leaving several messages. She's yet to return my phone call. It's been 5 days.

    So my wife has the car back, fearing for her life every second she's behind the wheel, knowing the next time she presses the breaks the car may not stop. Needless to say, this is not okay. I am not in the habit of posting reviews, but I'm not sure how to go to war with a mega-corporation who is just unwilling to do the right thing. I've been a loyal Toyota customer my whole life. My first car was a Toyota. Both of our current cars are Toyota. But this week I've learned just how much that loyalty is rewarded. My Toyota Customer Experience: pure misery.

    I plan to file a complaint with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, and I am going out of my way to post this on Yelp, social media, and others to get as much visibility as humanly possible.
     
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  2. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    1) That dealership sucks. If they really wanted, they could convince corporate to cover the repair.
    2) Were ALL of the following lights on? If no, you both misdiagnosed it. According to The Warranty Enhancement Notification: ALL of these lights need to be on.
    upload_2017-10-7_14-41-15.png

    3) You can't goto war with Toyota when they outlined the terms of warranty enhancement coverage. Seems like you did NOT meet the criteria, despite what was conversed and what the dealership is ultimately telling you.
    4) Toyota only offered the warranty enhancement/extension b/c they were in the political hot seat from the stuck gas pedal/floormat entrapment/run away scandal. Toyota was under no obligation to do so, but probably did so for better PR, and a side benefit of some happier customers. If Toyota never extended the warranty, you would be well outside of warranty, as the part was likely covered for 5years/60K miles.
    5) Try contacting Avi for repair costs. Should be cheaper than the dealership. Make sure he is actually at the address. Last time I thought he was in Inglewood, CA.
    Hybrid Fix - Auto Repair - 29 Reviews - 3790 S Western Ave - Los Angeles, CA - Yelp
     
  3. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Only thought that kind of crap only happened to me.

    But what were the signs of failure you were seeing?
     
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  4. normalstin

    normalstin Junior Member

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    The system is clearly malfunctioning regardless of lights not being on. It's making the buzzing sound almost constantly (even when not pressing the break down), and it's making the "barking" or "honking" noise when breaks are applied, especially at slow speeds or a complete stop. It's so loud, when I was on the phone with my wife I asked her who was honking at her.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    are you sure the brakes can actually fail?
     
  6. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

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    I suggest you get a copy of the warranty enhancement program and read it for yourself. Replacement of the HCU is ONLY covered under the program if very specific faults are present in memory. There are a multitude of possible faults that this program does not cover, but in either event, covered or not, the dealer is acting more like a STEALer.
     
  7. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Sounds like something is wrong with the accumulator pump or something is causing it to always run. That is the only component of the braking system that makes a pumping noise, b/c it is a motor (pump) that builds/creates vacuum pressure.

    IIRC (if I recall correctly) the warranty extension covers the ABS modulator. If this is true, the acumulator pump is NOT covered.

    The devil is in the details. You obviously don't like what I am telling you and what the dealership is telling you. You need to find out the details.

    Toyota could be nice and offer you goodwill assistance to cover a portion, or all of the repair cost, if they wanted to, esp if the accumulator pump is NOT subject to the warranty extension.
     
  8. normalstin

    normalstin Junior Member

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    Believe me, I have a copy of the warranty enhancement program. I've read it several times. And if you've read my (admittedly long) post, you'll see that it was diagnosed even by their shop foreman as a malfunction with the break actuator. They offered to fix it on my dime. They are unwilling to honor the warranty enhancement because no lights are illuminated.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you may want to consider a decent mechanic and a salvage actuator.
     
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  10. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

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    A couple things.

    These cars do not have any form of vacuum assisted brakes, all the brake assist comes from HIGHLY pressurized brake fluid pumped by the motor and held in the accumulators. When you step on the brake pedal, under NORMAL conditions, the electronics apply the brakes, completely unlike traditional hydraulic brake systems and more like systems common in construction equipment and aircraft. It is a well understood design, but like all, imperfect.

    Here is a link to the TSB: http://media.fixed-ops.com/Toy_ServiceBulletins/sb0032t16.pdf

    All affected should take the necessary time to READ IT. Very specific conditions are spelled out in the document that initiate the warranty program coverage, it is as likely as not for the failure to be one of the modes covered.

    Additionally, here is the link to the coverage document as previously posted in PC: https://attachments.priuschat.com/attachment-files/2016/05/107118_T-CP-ZG1-A110-D.pdf

    I would encourage ANYONE with brake actuator problems to PRINT these documents and be prepared to ask questions about the codes if a dealer says "not covered".
     
  11. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

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    Coverage has NOTHING what-so-ever to do with lights or not, it is 100% and completely dependent on the DTC(s) stored.
     
  12. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The original poster is driving a Gen 2, where the pump/accumulator and actuator are a single integrated assembly, so in this case, there's no such distinction to be made.

    The pump/accumulator is a separate assembly from the actuator in every other generation, but not Gen 2.

    Just for fun, I went and looked up how they shuffled around the same basic components between generations as which different separate assemblies you can buy:

    Code:
    g1
     cylinder sub-assembly, brake master $957 (rebuild kit available $83)
     pump sub-assembly, brake booster with accumulator $1524
     actuator assembly, brake $1407
     computer assembly, skid control $821
    
    g2
     cylinder sub-assembly, brake master $175
     cylinder sub-assembly, stroke simulator $96
     actuator assembly, brake (includes pump) $1716
     computer assembly, skid control $1826
    
    g3
     booster assembly with master cylinder (includes actuator) $2522
     pump assembly, brake booster $1063
    
    g4
     booster assembly with master cylinder $2522
     pump assembly, brake booster $1673
     actuator assembly, brake $1728
    
    Interesting that Gen 2 had the cheapest master cylinder (in every other gen it has a hydraulic booster function, but Gen 2's does not), but Gen 1 was the only one where you could get a master cylinder rebuild kit. The Gen 3 "master cylinder" took a crazy jump in price because it's now also the actuator and has the ECU glommed onto the side. Of course, it stays the same price in Gen 4 even though the actuator's been pulled back out again as $1700 of separate assembly. No telling what they'll think of next.

    Those are all list prices; real prices for all those things are less.

    -Chap
     
  13. jenesuispasbavard

    jenesuispasbavard Junior Member

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    If you have the time and there's one nearby, try another service center. I called the two nearest me and they said they wouldn't cover it if there were no lights, but the third said they'd have a look. I didn't have any warning lights but they covered the whole thing anyway, with an 'ABS lights randomly switching on' message in the repair notes. The symptoms were literally the same as the ZG1 problem, rattling from the actuator assembly and barking from the brakes when stationary.
     
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  14. prius8654

    prius8654 Junior Member

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    Did you have relevant codes stored? I'm getting the ABS, brake, and warning triangle coming on (intermittently) but dealer is saying no brake system codes are stored. Pretty sure it must be throwing some brake system DTC if those lights are coming on..
     
  15. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    If the dealership isn't ready to do the work without the lights on, its easy to cause those lights to come on. I'd just...the system. How about that?
     
  16. prius8654

    prius8654 Junior Member

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    Thanks Dxta, You'd just do what to the system? Can a fuse be pulled or something?

    It's clear that several people like jb98 and normalstin are running into pushback from dealers while others have had more positive experiences some without even having had the lights come on the dash.

    Also, this is not a job that any tech really looks forward to. Warranty jobs don't usually pay well, and this one seems to involve lots of tight access and lengthy procedures. So unfortunately it's somewhat understandable that not everyone will have a very smooth experience getting this done, even with overwhelming symptoms like the two priuschat members above.

    Dealer tech video:





    and here are the error codes as posted by the Youtube author of the above vid (Roger Rios): Error codes c1391 c0200 c0205 c1256

    As exstudent has said, if a tech/dealer wanted to make this happen for a given car, they can.

    That being said, myself and several others have pretty overwhelming symptoms but it is at codes are not stored in there or we get unlucky and somehow they clear themselves or the lights don't present themselves when they need to, so does anyone know how to replicate the lights and throw one or several of the five C codes, like which fuses to pull etc?

    This is the last day, and I have several dealers nearby that are open today.

    Thanks fellow Prius enthusiasts!
     
    #16 prius8654, Dec 31, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  17. normalstin

    normalstin Junior Member

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    To bookend this ongoing saga. The breaks finally failed while my wife and kids were on the freeway, almost causing a severe accident. The lights came on. I took it back to the dealership and they diagnosed the lights as a brake sensor. Still refused to fix the car under the warranty enhancement. And here's the kicker: They charged me $150 for the diagnostic. It's a joke. I am making it one of my life goals to convince people to never buy Toyota. They are scam artists. I traded in the Prius and bought a new car. It's not a Toyota.
     
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  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    congrats, all the best!(y)
     
  19. prius8654

    prius8654 Junior Member

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    Thanks for updating us!
     
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  20. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    To pushback and provide a bit of balance, you had a fault code that came up. It was diagnosed, but you declined to have it repaired. Subsequently, your wife and kids were endangered because of this and were nearly in a serious crash.

    I'd say you should be thankful you are not being pursued for reckless endangerment.

    Brake sensor failure does not equal failed accumulator/actuator.
     
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