Union of Concerned Scientists issue scorecard on hybrids

barcelona11 posted this already... (in this forum) OK, yours is more detailed.

 

Escalade hybrid value is very good?

Also civic hybrid has $$$ forced features and is very good, insight with same econ and no forced features is only a good value.

Scorecard seems pretty jacked IMO.

 

The "hybrid value" is based on the comparison of the hybrid cost to the matching non-hybrid model. They are looking at the gain in gas mileage compared to the cost of moving up to the hybrid model. The addition of forced features jacks the price up on models that don't have a "base model" in the hybrid. The list of forced features is accessible from the article. It's quite substantial on some vehicles (leather seats, nav package, etc).

 

If they are so "Concerned", why haven't they put their own hybrid on the market.


Those who can, do. Those who can't, bitch about those who do. Anonymous

 

While these types of reports are certainly helpful to a certain extent, there are several assertions contained within the report that are technically and effectively incorrect. Because of these, and even perhaps there are others I did not notice, I am not too sure I would use their findings as a reference material to promote hybrid technology.

However, I do agree that there's still much automakers can do improve fuel efficiency and reduce emissions but it is likely to remain a difficult task unless we can have vehicles with better driving aids.
After all, one of the most effective improvements in fuel reduction and lower emissions can still be achieved by adjusting that "nut" behind the steering wheel and not just through incremental improvements in technology.

Oh, and truly helpful and truthful instrumentation would help too.

Cheers;

 

Isn't this kind of like condemning my criticism of the president by saying I should run for president if I have such problems with him?

 

I saw this on the "other" posting. I like the grading for the value and the option for the forced features..

 

So 12k for 8mpg is a good value to you?

 

I drive 30,000 miles a year and pay $3.50 a gallon for gas.

13 MPG is over 2300 gallons, over $8000 a year.
21 MPG is under 1500 gallons, $5000 a year

So 8 MPG would save me over $3000 a year. The payback is 4 years.

By comparison, going from 25 MPG to 50 MPG only saves me $2100 a year. It would take over 5 1/2 years to payback $12,000

MPG is not linear to $. (or to CO2)

 

I agree that the Ice Capade is too wasteful as it is (being a more expensive gussied up version of a Tahoe) and is a monstrosity battering ram of death.

Hybridizing it is like putting lipstick on a pig. But... Jimbo's statements basically are basically the same as http://priuschat.com/forums/other-c...eage-no-its-your-gallonage-really-counts.html.

 

*referenced post removed by mod

A post like that could get you banned at GreenHybrid just like me. Over there the posers get very defensive when questioned about making a solo work commute in an eight-seater....that hybrid label is suppose to absolve them. At that forum, the posers are just as sensitive on this topic as women are about age and weight if not more so.

 

FWIW, the administrator of Greenhybrid owns an Ice Capade Hybrid. I didn't know that they were that sensitive though, until now.

I normally stay out of the GM two mode areas there since I have 0 interest in them.

 

^ GreenHybrid started out with lots of people that drove hybrids AND drove green. They attempted to increase activity by catering to the gearheads and posers who want to greenwash their conscious even before the site was sold along with it's soul. They ran of most of the truly green people off as they were just too uncomfortable having gas guzzling in hybrids contested.

 

The question you asked was "So 12k for 8mpg is a good value to you?" That is the question I answered. You said nothing about an Escalade, nor did I.

Now you claim I said all sorts of things, that you will not find in my post, and are childishly calling me names based on what you imagine I said.

If you want to save gasoline and reduce CO2, you are better off getting an SUV driver to hybridize their next SUV than getting a compact car owner to hybridize their next compact purchase. I am embarrassed for you that this offends you, it is just math.

If you call them names, you may be less successful at getting them in a Hybrid SUV.

 

Very true, although other choices exist, like getting the SUV driver into a compact, or even better into a Prius. People who 'want' SUVs are much more common than people who 'need' SUVs. High fuel prices is a good way to help people distinguish between want and need.

 

Actually I was not calling you names. Apparently the jump to conclusions mat has claimed another victim.

Your point is valid and if the vehicle was anything other than a schoolbus for the rich I would wholly agree.

The vehicle is pointless, and buying a hybrid version of it is a smack in the face to anyone that actually drives a hybrid for environmental reasons. If you NEED a hybrid SUV there are Escape and Highlander hybrids that actually save a couple drops of gas a year instead of being a leather clad, wood appointed "look at me I am wealthy" billboard.

You are also not going to be successful getting them in to a hybrid SUV because THEY DON'T CARE. A woman at my work went from a smallish Mercedes SUV to a regular Escalade when gas was 4 dollars a gallon because she claimed she needed room for 2 car seats in it.

That is the justification...there will be nothing to get people like that in a smarter car.

 

I have a different take on what will reduce sales of jumbo SUV's like the Escalade - continued decline of professional jobs in America.

For the upper middle class, price at the pump does not matter that much - a few may even brag they can afford it. Job security changes everything.

A number of industries are drying up: print media, telecom, a number of sales and service jobs. There are lots of long-term employed and/or people that have had to change their profession and lifestyle. Many realize they could lose their job at any time and realize they need to live under their means so they can survive to the next job. This causes a number of people to think twice about what they buy.

A lot of people already get it and expect as more people are impacted by our current economy, luxury SUV sales will decline even more.

 

Two car seats do not fit in the Hybrid SUV? (You are trying to change their vehicle choice, I am trying to reduce CO2 generation)