University of Florida Student Tasered Into Submission

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Sep 20 2007, 10:12 AM) [snapback]515218[/snapback]</div>

I think it is self-serving and biased - and i await for you to post the complaint from the plaintiff in this case as well as from INDEPENDENT eye witness.

Shocking you would take the word of a cop here - lock stock and barrel. Jeez, I guess you believe the CIA and FBI reports too are foolproof, not self-serving -- and of course General Petrayus's report to Congress last week was 100 correct too

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 20 2007, 10:17 AM) [snapback]515220[/snapback]</div>

And here's another quote from the police report from Officer Wise. And they all match together reasonably well. Do you believe all the officers are lying? Especially since it matches up with the video evidence.

The new information that we get out of the report is that Meyer didn't cause the disturbance during the question and answer part of the event like the news reports implied. He didn't make it to the front of the line during that time. Instead, he created a disturbance after the event ended and demanded that he be allowed to ask his question. They began to escort him from the auditorium before he even asked his question because of his behavior and the fact that the event was over. Kerry actually requested that Meyer be allowed to ask his question and the police returned him to the microphone. Meyer then asked his question and didn't even allow Kerry to answer, but continued to cause a disturbance. The event sponser then cut the microphone and asked the police to remove Meyer. No free speech issue here. Just an idiot out to make a scene captured on video.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Police Report")</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 20 2007, 10:17 AM) [snapback]515220[/snapback]</div>

They're not? This is shocking. I may have to adjust my entire world view!

Tom

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Sep 20 2007, 09:35 AM) [snapback]515209[/snapback]</div>

I know. I was being a little rhetorical. That said, I think my un-nuanced statement of the law was substantially accurate.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Sep 20 2007, 09:35 AM) [snapback]515209[/snapback]</div>

Thanks. This is a great overview, especially the state by state overview of individual state decisions on whether the state's constitution grants greater free speech and assembly rights on private property than those granted by the First Amendment. Though IMO it presents a sad picture.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 20 2007, 09:11 AM) [snapback]515217[/snapback]</div>

Lets take a good example here - the public school system. I don't know how it is where you live, but every school system i've seen has certain codes of conduct, including dress codes that forbid offensive or obscene clothing or other items. They also forbid acting out like this individual was. When kids create a distubance in class, they get sent to the principals office, in otherwords they are removed from the assembly. If they resist, often times the police are called to forcibly remove the student from the room, or the building.

I find it rather shocking that a high priced medical conference would put up with an outburst from an individual specifically designed to disrupt the conference. I know all of the conferences i've been to, disruptive individuals have been asked to leave, and forcibly removed if necessary. Of course, most of the time this isn't necessary, as the individuals present are respectful of the assembly and the rules (both implied and explicit).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hampdenwireless @ Sep 18 2007, 10:40 PM) [snapback]514613[/snapback]</div>

I think it was better to tazer him than infect several people with pepper spray residue.

Im guessing those of you who think the police shouldnt have taken the kid away, just dont know how it works. It is illegal to disrupt a public gatering.. I guess the peace marchers wouldnt understand that though.

1) The kid was disrupting a public gathering, 2) he failed to obey direction given by the police, 3) he then resisted the police with violence, ie flailing his arms about and possibly struck an officer, thus battery on a police officer. 3) police departments have a use of force level that mandates how much force can be used.
I think the officers did an out standing job! B)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Sep 20 2007, 07:12 AM) [snapback]515218[/snapback]</div>

Well, police reports can be self-serving. Remember the report that was filed in the Rodney King beating? If you went by the officers statements, Rodney King beat the living crap out of them and they were just acting in self defense. And if it were not for the video tape of the beating, the report would have outweighed King's claims.

Unfortunately for the police officers, there are multiple video recordings of the episode. I wonder if officer Mallo filed the report under penalty of perjury? If so, she better start looking for a job as a rent-a-cop.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Sep 20 2007, 07:46 AM) [snapback]515230[/snapback]</div>

Well, lets see. The officers are motivated to get their stories straight because they could lose their jobs. Depending on the laws governing use of force, they could have personal jeopardy for damages resulting from excessive use of force. So, there is a pretty high motivation to get the stories straight. Also, how do get to the conclusion that the officer's stories match up with the video evidence? Just one variance for consideration - officer Mallo states that she made only one application of the Taser voltage to Meyer; yet there are at least 4 buzzes (and buzz is a charitable description frying might be more accurate, but I digress) that are recorded in the videos. What is the explanation for the other three buzzes? Echos perhaps?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Sep 20 2007, 07:46 AM) [snapback]515230[/snapback]</div>

And were it not for the Tasering after Meyer was under restraint, that is all it would be - a loud-mouthed idiot out to make a scene captured on video.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 20 2007, 07:17 AM) [snapback]515220[/snapback]</div>

In this case it is literally shocking....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Sep 20 2007, 01:38 PM) [snapback]515326[/snapback]</div>

Which part of Mallo's report do you think is perjury?

Remember that the cameras started rolling well into the incident. By that point, he had already created a disturbance when the event ended before he made it to the front of the Q&A line. The police had already started dragging his butt out of the auditorium (while he fought with them) before Kerry requested that he be allowed to ask his question. Once given the opportunity to ask a question, he instead went into a diatribe without giving Kerry a chance to respond. The event sponser then ended the event for the second time, and the police resumed escorting Meyer out of the auditorium.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Sep 20 2007, 01:46 PM) [snapback]515326[/snapback]</div>

I don't have audio on my computer so I can't hear it. Were the 4 buzzes close together and evenly spaced? Since I have never used a taser, and I suspect neither have you, I can't rule out the possibility that the taser might in normal operation produce a series of "zaps". That could explain what Mallo means when she says:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Officer Mallo")</div>

What does "the duration of its cycle" mean exactly. Could it be possible that a taser is programed to deliver a series of 4 pulses when it's used? After all, the phrase "duration of its cycle" would be an odd one to use if each use of the taser delivered only a short little zap. To me, that phrase implies that the duration of the taser's cycle is long enough that you could reasonably choose to end it before it stopped on its own. That doesn't fit with a single buzz or zap.

If so, if the 4 pulses does constitute a full cycle of a contact tase, then Mallo's report was perfectly accurate, especially since it's audience would be people who understand how a taser operates.

Perhaps our police members could enlighten us.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Sep 20 2007, 10:50 AM) [snapback]515341[/snapback]</div>

The part about a single application of the Taser to Meyer. If Mallo submitted the report under penalty of perjury and it turns out that 4 separate applications of the Taser occurred, then Mallo perjured herself.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Sep 20 2007, 02:37 PM) [snapback]515367[/snapback]</div>

Our posts passed in the night. See the addition to my previous post. Do we really know what "deployed for the duration of it's cycle" means?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Sep 20 2007, 11:07 AM) [snapback]515350[/snapback]</div>

Well, you may have a point (you are correct, I do not know how the Taser functions; if there is a standard cycle of 4 zaps for each press of the trigger, then maybe Meyer would have to go after the manufacturer of the Taser which is more problematic). However, there is still the problem for Mallo of when she zapped Meyer. All of the videos that I have seen that cover the period when Meyer got zapped show him being under full restraint by 4 separate officers before he was zapped. Mallo is a bit vague (could it be on purpose?) in this part of her report.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Sep 20 2007, 02:46 PM) [snapback]515371[/snapback]</div>

Actually, I may be wrong. While I find descriptions of a different model of taser that indicates that is produces a series of shocks with 1.8 second breaks inbetween, the literature I find on the X26, which is what they used, does not imply this.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Sep 20 2007, 11:48 AM) [snapback]515270[/snapback]</div>

We have excellent public school systems were i live and mine and a number of others near me are constantly in the top 100 ranking nation-wide. I believe that students have NO rights in our public school system and that in fact their lockers can and are searched without a warrant.

I cant remember ever seeing a person who protested something like this ever treated this way - i find it shocking (pun intended) - i personally think the security forces acted improperly and with excessive force. I would bet that a court of law will be the ultimate arbitor of that - if it makes it that far.

the silence from the University is not a good sign for the officers - i am sure review of the videotape is not going to provide them with any real cover in that they tasered a well restrained american citizen after he pleased for them not to. my only question is how much??

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Sep 20 2007, 12:01 PM) [snapback]515382[/snapback]</div>

Then it would seem that officer Mallo has some problems.... I wonder what the settlement amount will be? $1 per volt per application? At 4 applications of 50,000 volts, that would work out to something like $200,000.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Sep 20 2007, 03:09 PM) [snapback]515387[/snapback]</div>

not close imho

this is a first of its type case/incident. there will be bonus dollars for that as a stern warning to others whom might travel that [electric] pathway.

there will be bonus dollars because of his soon to be trademarked saying, "dont tase me bro".

a multiplier will be the number of cell phones and other photographic devices that caught it live.

another multiplier will be the number of security forces pinning him down to the ground at the time of the tasering - that is a 6x multiplier.

there will be more bonus dollars for him crying out, "not to do it" thereby offering his submission to the security forces, and the fact that he was not offering any more resistance at the time of the tasering.

then you have the problem with public perception that the university wants to correct and do so in any way possible.

My guess is that if he lawyers up well, and i am sure he is getting some calls today from some Grade A legal sharks, he will clear seven figures.

i would take your $200,000 ( and i do like how you arrived at that number although if you were a Con Ed customer you would probably go with a figure closer to $2.00/volt and multiple by at least 6 for the number of officers and 3 for being made an example of (triple damages) - so i am thinking around 3.6 mil.

how much did rodney king get and he was running from the cops and endangering lives in the process and all they did was beat him - here they electrified the kid. mind you any good lawyer will bring up all the people who have died or suffered permanent injury when tasered - and the fact that you never know what it does the heart and other vital organs......

just love it.

 

Did you see the same video i saw? He was on the ground and got half way up several times. They told him repeatedly to put his arms behind his back and he continually resisted.

A taser isn't "electrifying the kid". As someone else pointed out, a few hundred deaths, mostly attributed to drug use and NOT the taser, out of several hundred thousand deaths.

"and the fact that you never know what it does the heart and other vital organs"

As a doctor, you really should know that statement is complete and utter bull. a low amperage shot like that wouldn't do anything.

In this case, his history's against him. The video evidence clearly shows him resisting the police, even after he was "subdued". He's not getting a penny.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 20 2007, 12:39 PM) [snapback]515399[/snapback]</div>

Well, it depends on how patient Meyer wants to be to collect. The above factors are a bit speculative and depend more on the university's desire to end the nightmare.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 20 2007, 12:39 PM) [snapback]515399[/snapback]</div>

This might get the base value ($1 in my earlier analysis) increased to $2 and possibly more.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 20 2007, 12:39 PM) [snapback]515399[/snapback]</div>

This buttresses the excessive use of force argument - that he was zapped after having submitted. But I doubt it becomes a multiplier.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 20 2007, 12:39 PM) [snapback]515399[/snapback]</div>

This is the real issue - how badly does the university want this problem to go away?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 20 2007, 12:39 PM) [snapback]515399[/snapback]</div>

I would imagine the attorneys would go in asking for something like $3.6 million; but whether they get it is another matter.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 20 2007, 12:39 PM) [snapback]515399[/snapback]</div>

If memory serves, Rodney King got something like $5-7 million. And he arguably got the crap beaten out of him. Short of having a parade of expert witnesses that can show permanent damage to Meyer from being zapped (and expect the manufacturer of the Taser to file an amicus brief with their parade of experts that say there is no damage whatsoever from Taser applications; they have a vested interest (Taser sales being at risk) afterall), there really is a limit to what can be reasonably recovered. This is more of an exercise in PR damage control after a certain point. If the university starts to see enrollment or alumni donation declines that can be attributed to Meyer getting zapped, then all bets are off.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 20 2007, 03:39 PM) [snapback]515399[/snapback]</div>

If his behavior earns him seven figures, get ready for a lot of derelicts trying to cash in using the same scheme. Getting a full jury of people supporting Meyer in FL is rather unlikely.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 20 2007, 06:51 AM) [snapback]515181[/snapback]</div>

No way I want to see beating, tasing, grabbing or any mistreatment of anyone, including Meyer....but it is not at all clear to me that the police were 100% clear of all possible injury (biting, spitting, gouging, kicking, etc.) just because a very big violent individual was horizontal instead of vertical.

Right now, it seems to be bigger news that some lout is tasered (tased?) compared to a police officer getting killed. (Woman tasered!, News at 11.)