UOA Used Oil Analysis

Here's another one from me.

The fuel dilution issue remains, even though I took pains to avoid it in sampling. It may be that the Pris' PCV valve is no longer performing well. THis one is original at 105k miles. I know I oughtta change it...

 

The oil filters have always been Toyota's, but just now I have changed to the 'longer one'. Air filter has been K&N for all my UOA; re-oiled sometime around 80k. The Si is not worrying me yet, but if it gets much worse I shall have to revert to paper air filters.

One of these days, somebody will post 50 ppm Fe or so in Prius and we'll all freak out! Or other numbers that would be very acceptable for other engines. Prius is just too clean, inside and out, which draws us dangerously close to perfectionism.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tochatihu @ Jun 7 2007, 07:27 AM) [snapback]457304[/snapback]</div>

Let me add my latest report as well. Seemingly a lot of fuel dilution.

[attachmentid=8681]

The viscosity of 10 concerns me, as well as the sodium level. How bad is 203 on sodium. It says high sodium could only be a coolant leak, such as head gasket leaking, broken or cracked head.

What other symptoms would show head gasket leak, etc. I would assume either cause would result in performance issues. As for the fuel dilution, what beside a bad PCV could cause it. The earlier example showed a viscosity of 20.0, after 1000 miles. I've been taking my sample soon after at least 20 miles of driving, and inserting the tube to the level of the level of the end of the dipstick should make it more or less at midway up through the oil, far from either top surface or bottom of oil pan? I am approaching 50k miles now, but have never had what I considered to be performance issues.

IIRC, this oil is from my oil change at a dealer in Santa Cruz, before my trip back home.

The sodium level in my first report (at 1000 miles on an earlier oil change) was 4 ppm. Actually, I see now that the earlier report is also included.

Thanks for any ideas. Tochatihu, Jayman, anyone else doing oil analysis.

Since they suggest another sample in 3000 miles, I may do that. And if sodium is still high (Jayman, I think you may have suggested that contamination may be from the dealer oil). Does that include sodium?


Dave M.

 

I know that I am speaking out of turn, but Jaymans old complaint about dealer oil specifically concerned Sodium. However, Mobil uses Na as part of their additive package. The Mobil "Clean" or "5000" or "7500" all have about 250ppm sodium. Usually when you have a coolant leak you have sodium and potasium in your oil. Plus, your wear metals spike up due to the water in the oil. I bet you just have one of the Mobil oils in there.

I cant believe anyone would actually put a K&N filter on their Prius.

Fram makes a nice air filter.

Fram makes an overpriced oil filter.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Winston @ Jun 8 2007, 09:54 AM) [snapback]458097[/snapback]</div>

Thanks for that information. It makes me feel better. I think I'll take a sample on my current oil, which has less than 500 miles on it, and take another sample at 3000 miles. At least then, I'll least see if the sodium level is changing.

Why would you say you're speaking out of turn?

Dave M.

 

Hi Dave M., let me get this straight - This oil was Pennzoil (from bottles), and it was analyzed twice, and the second analysis changed radically in sodium and viscosity?

If so, I am going to assume that you have different oil and filter in now. Please resample that in about 500 miles for analysis. Collect a double sample and hold on to one, just in case you decide later to send it to a different lab for confirmation.

I would not wait 3000 miles (especially in a beloved Prius), to see if there are major antifreeze or fuel dilution issues going on. Don't fret, but don't wait for that re-analysis. The engine is obviously not getting shredded yet

Edit - I said the Pennzoil thing because your UOA seems to indicate that. But your post says a dlr change, so I am just trying to clarify what actually happened.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dmckinstry @ Jun 8 2007, 09:42 AM) [snapback]458083[/snapback]</div>

If I read the report correctly you've put 10,000 mile on this oil change, that is probably the reason for the viscosity to drop to 10, it shows that the additive pack in the oil is used up. Easy way to monitor the antifreeze is to put a line on the overflow tank and check it when cold, as in a Prius we can never get a warm reading as the ICE is on and off all the time, so a cold check is the only really valid one. If the antifreeze level keeps going down, time for pressure test of the cooling system.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tochatihu @ Jun 9 2007, 08:01 AM) [snapback]458647[/snapback]</div>

No. The first was Pennzoil from a Quick lube type facility. The 2nd was from the dealer in Santa Cruz (IIRC). I wish now that I'd taken a sample right after the oil change, rather than waiting until just before the next change. Anyway it was 15-20 miles away from Watsonville, where I was vacationing at the time.

I need to correct the above. I just remembered that the sample taken in Watsonville (before getting the oil change in Santa Cruz) was apparently lost in the mail. That was taken at the end of the 5000 miles where the first Pennzoil sample was taken at 1000 miles.

The most recent change was made at the dealer in Spokane.

If I can, tomorrow I'll try to call the Santa Cruz dealer that made that change, and see what brand oil they use (or used at the end of March).

Dave M.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ Jun 10 2007, 08:12 AM) [snapback]459140[/snapback]</div>

No. Only 5000 miles. When I was into the dealer (in Spokane) for the most recent oil change (at ~49060 miles), I was told the coolant level looked ok. There was no evidence of water in the oil (from either oil sample), and no mention of antifreeze.
The oil change that was on the second line was made at about 44000 miles (at the end of March), and the one before that about 39000 miles (in early February). I've never gone more than 5100 miles between changes, and usually a little less than 5000 miles.

Dave M.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Winston @ Jun 8 2007, 09:54 AM) [snapback]458097[/snapback]</div>

I just called the dealer in Santa Cruz (actually Capitola), and was told they use Mobil for all their vehicles. If that's done by all Toyota vehicles, then the sodium is probably (as you said) an additive and not a contamination. I'll give my dealer a call to see what their oil is, and ask if it's normal for all Toyota dealers.

Maybe DH (via Galaxee) can shed some light on that issue.

An update. The Appleway dealer in Spokane said that they use Chevron.
I'll see what my first analysis on that change shows.

Dave M.

 

I believe that Blackstone analyzes for Antimony now. The sodium actually shows up because it is part of the Antimony additive. Blackstone now knows that Mobil oils show Sodium in the analysis. It seems that some of the other labs are not aware of it yet.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dmckinstry @ Jun 11 2007, 08:32 AM) [snapback]459508[/snapback]</div>

Here's he result of the analysis taken after driving from Cheney, WA to Winnemucca,NV. 1750 miles on that oild at time of testing. No dilution flagged, but viscosity is apparently down to 20. I'll wait until my normal oil change around 55k miles and use Mobil 1 then, just to see if the viscosity is higher after 5000 miles on it.




Dave M.
[attachmentid=9339]

 

Here's my first UOA for the records. I'm planning to run somewhat extended drain intervals so I'll be sampling regularly.



[attachmentid=9482]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tochatihu @ Jun 8 2007, 12:19 PM) [snapback]458061[/snapback]</div>

I'm on an email style BMW motorcycle list. Those guys hate K&N filters with a passion. They claim there are no benefits, and too much dirt gets through.

Your test results may be illustrating their point quite nicely.

Harry

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Winston @ Jun 11 2007, 09:56 AM) [snapback]459614[/snapback]</div>

Apparently Western States is one of those that doesn't. It wasn't an issue this time, as the Appleway Toyota dealer in Spokane uses Chevron, rather than Mobil.

This is the 5000 mile sample (a few hundred miles before my last change). It still shows an issue with fuel dilution and lower viscosity. I'm going to change (Or have changed, since it's too hot for me to work on the car in our current weather.) the PCV value to see if that has an effect. Also, on this last change I had the dealer use Mobil 1. That cost about $30 more than my regular oil change. In cooler weather, I'll probably start to do my own changes.

[attachmentid=10310]

Dave M.

 

Here is my first UOA for my Prius. It is the original oil. 2272 miles on the oil. I am not one to change my oil often, but I plan on doing a few quick changes initially to get the contaminants out of the engine. I replaced the OEM oil with Motorcraft 5W20 oil and a Supertech (Walmart) filter. I plan on changing that oil out at 5k miles. (dont cringe, that oil and that filter are excellent products.) And, yes I know that Toyota calls for 5W30 oil.

No fuel dilution, just a bit of silicon and copper. Looks good.

No Boron? Hmmm..

 

Thanks Winston. See MainePrius' spreadsheet for context. The intial copper now seems routine. The other 'factory fill' oils lacked boron as well.

 

I just noticed that the oil is too thin to be a 30 weight oil?!?! The other OEM sample in the spreadsheet is too thin too. It is at the high end of a 20 weight oil.

Interesting......