Upgrading existing "dedicated" 220V Circuit for EVSE.

Discussion in 'Prime Plug-in Charging' started by Diemaster, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. Diemaster

    Diemaster Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    196
    180
    2
    Location:
    so. cal
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    So I already have a dedicated 220V outlet in the garage. My dad had it put in for a arc welder but never bought one. It's a 10-30p on a 30A breaker like this. I want to upgrade it to a 14-50p since most EVSE's have this plug on them already. i do not want to hard wire it. I know i will have to upgrade the breaker to a 50A. pic of the current breaker attached. Can I swap it out to 2 50A paired breakers next to each other? please tell me i dont have to swap out the wiring.

    Or should i just get an electrician?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. CraigM

    CraigM Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2017
    202
    203
    0
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    There’s a saying from my military days: “If there’s doubt, there’s no doubt”. Basically meaning if someone has any doubts, then don’t do it :)

    I think the wire gauge, plug and breaker all work together. You wouldn’t put a 50A receptacle on 30A wiring.

    You might look at Clipper Creek EVSEs. They sell a series of 24A units that would work great on a 30A circuit. I repurposed a 30A Electric dryer circuit for my Clipper Creak unit. I used an electrician because I had a few “doubts” of my abilities. Besides, when I had the EVSE installed two years ago for my previous BEV, there were Federal and Oregon tax credits for charging stations.
     
    fuzzy1 likes this.
  3. NR427

    NR427 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    142
    99
    0
    Location:
    Utah
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    There are lots of EVSEs that come with the 10-30 plug on them. I would just buy one of those and be done. Swapping out breakers when you are not sure of the wiring is a good way to start a fire.
     
    fuzzy1 and Prodigyplace like this.
  4. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    2,933
    689
    0
    Location:
    New Yawk
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    Even if local codes do not require a licensed electrician to install and an independent Underwriters Laboratory (UL) inspection to certify, your insurer may.
     
    #4 Air_Boss, Dec 21, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
    fuzzy1 and Prodigyplace like this.
  5. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    4,003
    932
    118
    Location:
    Los Angeles Foothills
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Simple, figure out what gauge the 30A existing wire is, I would guess it's at least a 10 Gauge is in there, when I got the Leaf, all my wiring is in conduit, so I just pulled the 10 Gauge out, replaced it with 8 Gauge, perfect for a 40A 6.6kW quick charge the Leaf wanted... L1, L2 Ground, I threw in a Neutral as well, although my EVSE did not require one.
     
  6. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    13,119
    6,658
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Sorry, but I must tell you that if it is wired for merely 30 amps, then you must swap out the wiring with some rated for the higher current.

    If you are fortunate, dad may have used upsized wire. But you won't know without looking.

    The fire inspectors and insurance adjusters will be able to determine the wire gauge in the ashes of your garage.
     
    Dudley1030 likes this.
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    85,467
    37,678
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    why not just set it up for your prime, and worry about the 50 amps when you need it? the wiring is the hardest part.
     
  8. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    11,986
    6,243
    0
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    amazon.com/Ebusbar-EBB_220_16_NM10_30-Level-potable-charger/dp/B076C6B76K.

    is a 16 Amp charger
     
  9. Diemaster

    Diemaster Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    196
    180
    2
    Location:
    so. cal
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Upon more research i found this: (my work has a clippercreek EVSE so their the first brand i looked into.)

    EV Charging Station Plug Warning: NEMA 10-30 has no Ground

    "Additionally, when charging an electric vehicle the ground is passed through to the vehicle from the station for safety earth grounding during charging. If a neutral is used instead of a ground the neutral could generate a charge on the vehicle chassis, creating a potential safety hazard upon contact with the vehicle during or after charging."
     
  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    13,119
    6,658
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    This is normal for nearly everything. A neutral is not a substitute for a ground.

    Did your dad's wiring include a ground wire from the breaker panel to the outlet? If not, that is another blow to your wish to not rewire.
     
    Dxta likes this.
  11. Diemaster

    Diemaster Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    196
    180
    2
    Location:
    so. cal
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Bosco, (Seinfeld ^.^) i was going to "just set up for my prime" but if i do this i can list on my house "EVSE Electric car ready." and increase the resale value of the house a little. that and i like to future-proof things like this.

    Fuzzy, i will take the outlet apart tomorrow and find out what i have to work with wire wise. (and wire gauge) i was just trying to do most of the work myself. but as said above. i dont want my house to burn down .......again.
     
    #11 Diemaster, Dec 22, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
    Dudley1030 and bisco like this.
  12. Diemaster

    Diemaster Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    196
    180
    2
    Location:
    so. cal
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Well i took the outlet out. the wire was 10AWG and YES! There was a white neutral wire unused. So i bought a 14-50 plug and swaped out the 10-30. Since the breaker is still 30A i should be ok with any charger rated for 20A or lower, including the prime's 16A rating. so all i need to do now is find a EVSE with 14-50 plug (more common than 10-30), buy it for myself for Christmas, install, and be good to go.
     
    bisco likes this.
  13. CraigM

    CraigM Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2017
    202
    203
    0
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Again, I’m not an electrician but I think the 14-50 MIGHT be an electrical code violation on a 30 amp circuit? Might not seem a problem as long as you own the house, but think what might happen if a new owner sees the 14-50, thinks it’s a 50A circuit, and plugs in a 40 amp device into the 30 amp circuit. Yes, the breaker should open, but...

    Again, I’m no electrician!
     
    Dudley1030 likes this.
  14. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    1,799
    658
    0
    Location:
    Lagos
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    ...
    ...or good way to die also?
     
  15. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    1,799
    658
    0
    Location:
    Lagos
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    ...
    ...or good way to die also?
     
  16. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    1,799
    658
    0
    Location:
    Lagos
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II

    You are just funny! Ashes of his garage?:D
     
  17. Diemaster

    Diemaster Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    196
    180
    2
    Location:
    so. cal
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    my house already burned down years ago in the "old" fire (oct. 2003). ive been down that road. it's not fun. thank god i had AAA.

    this is why im trying to to be safe but also use what i got.
     
    bisco likes this.
  18. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2016
    1,799
    658
    0
    Location:
    Lagos
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Wao! So sorry dude.
     
  19. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    10,686
    10,181
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Verify that the Neutral wire is connected back at the panel rather than being disconnected on both ends.
     
    Air_Boss likes this.
  20. Diemaster

    Diemaster Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    196
    180
    2
    Location:
    so. cal
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    i did. it was already attached in the main panel. i didn't see any that weren't and i get 120v on both hots using the white and ground so im confident it's wired correctly.
     
    Prodigyplace and KK6PD like this.
Loading...
Similar Threads - Upgrading existing dedicated
  1. Diemaster
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    1,124