US auto sales were TERRIBLE for all automakers in September 08

I frequently travel to the EU on business. It's easy to spot a healthy mix of "domestic" vehicles (VW, Audi, Mercedes, Opel, Vauxhall, Ford, Fiat, Citroen) in addition to imports like Honda, Toyota, even Chinese cars are now allowed.

BMW did start legal proceedings to halt the sale of the Zhejiang Jonway CEO, as it very closely resembles a BMW X5.

What I simply don't understand is that GM's European subsidiaries, Opel in particular, appear to hold their own among very stiff competition. Yet here, they go whining for billions of taxpayer dollars

If you want to blame somebody for the economic meltdown, blame the crooks in government, Wall Street, and corporate America. These thieves, liars, and incompetent fools have screwed all of us, while still expecting multi-million dollar bonuses and golden parachutes.

 

The only market in the world that GM does not outsell toyota is Japan where no one is allowed to compete. As for GM's top management, the problems were created from Roger Smith thru the first segment of Rick Wagoner's tenure. In my opnion there is one less than desirable under wagoner but most of the vast majority are really good car people and if you knew them you would be impressed. The financial problems are caused by the cost structure created over decades and the "perception" problem created mainly in the 70's and 80's. Find a Toyota engineer or dealer and get them off the record and they will tell you how great GM's current product is. No GM has no prius fighter to date but most of the rest is on the money.

 

GM's Land Barge is on par w/ a Toyota Land Barge. What a great way to find a positive spin. As for gM not outselling Toyota (except in Japan) - how is it that sales-wise, Toyota is #1 in the world. Does that mean that Japan really really really buys a lot of Toyotas? As Toyota passes GM in world & U.S. sales, GM will likely go back into the lead by small amounts for short time, prior to GM fizzling more and more. Even so, GM may yet turn around. It appears GM is seeking advice on how to REALLY run a car company:

http://www.reuters.com/article/mergersNews/idUST7920920081029

So maybe GM can learn. Funny that GM has no problems with globalization, yet their subordinate in the 'flyover zone' has a problem.

Oh, and I like that part where you say:
" . . . "perception" problem created mainly in the 70's and 80's . . . "
I love it! That's the nicest way I've ever heard "skuzzy quality" spun. Perception. That, and the "MAINLY" part ... meaning what, that GM's quality wasn't quite as skuzzy after the 80's? Wouldn't THAT make a great GM ad: "Mainly, we are no way near as skuzzy as we used to be, quality wise"

So, you still belive globalization is the cause of GM's and the U.S.A.'s crash. The U.S. prints & reprints trillions in paper dollars as its sole backing for our currency now, for what, 40+ years? That not it, right? And to fund trillions for wars, (Viet Nam, to Middle East) the Fed simply prints trillions more dollars, backed only by the paper they're printed on, devaluing our nest egg's value to nill. That's not it, right? Instant credit for everyone, and no regard to ability to pay it back. That's not it, right? Free 100's of billions to bail out poorly managed companies like GM. That's not it, right? Nope, WE are not the cause of our own folly ... it's the sneeky yellow man's globalization. Such insight. That's incredible. Right on par with believing fossle fuel prices dumping for a few months, is going to be a permanant thing that'll last, and that we ought to go back to buying land barges, or the new improved 19mpg hybrid land barges. Incredible. This is the thinking that will bring the Volt into production some day?

oh! and welcome back. Now that Toyota is ramping up to build the Prius in the U.S.A. many here, I'm sure, were hoping to hear you now had a Toyota dealership. Call us Prius owners the eternal optomists.

 

There is stiff competition in the EU for car sales. GM had about 9.5% of total sales in the EU, for 2007

General Motors - GM Europe - Company Overview - Sales - Global Sales - Vehicle Sales

Odd how you don't hear Opel or Vauxhall whining

Toyota makes up around 5.8% of total EU market sales

Bonjour, Godzilla - Forbes.com

I just wonder what GM would do here if there were perhaps 10 different car companies all competing for tough market share. And I *really* wonder how GM Europe can make money when almost all of their sales are made up of those small "money losing" cars??

I only thought GM could make money on SUV's and pickups? So is GM Europe subsidising the production of all their small cars with truck and SUV sales from North America?? Just curious

I *am* impressed with their ability to lose money like a drunk sailor in a Taipei whorehouse. I'm also "very* impressed with their ability to tank share value. If I did even a small fraction of that in business, I would have been homeless a long time ago.

Also wondering if the impending taxpayer bailout will result in a handsome executive bonus and luxury spa visit?

You mean grade school dropout union workers who are underworked and overpaid? Those who have a salary that usually requires Graduate School level of education?

Funny, I did that around a month ago. They claimed their biggest concern was Hyundai, not GM

I seem to recall a certain individual stating the Prius was "smoke and mirrors." Obviously, that means the current GM hybrid offerings are also smoke and mirrors. The potential upcoming Volt (2010??) will also be smoke and mirrors, if one follows that logic

 

I have come to expect having either zero or even NEGATIVE growth on my retirement nest egg for the foreseeable future. At least I have zero debt, that alone puts me ahead of +95% of the population

I had a vague dream of semi-retiring by the time I was 50. I had better not, the way costs are going up while savings are being eroded. At least by now, I work because I *want* to, not because I *have* to

Thanks to all that worthless paper, I really do foresee Indentured Servitude for the next few generations. We'll also see more shady "bailouts" which are really rewards for outright criminal incompetence.

What the hell, that’s what taxpayers are for!

 

I knew GM was having sluggish sales, but holy s***, this is bad

GM Oct. sales fall nearly half; Ford drops 30 pct. - Yahoo! News

Locally, I haven't noticed an increase in sales of pickups and suv's. Folks are now well aware of a severe global economic recession, and are putting off getting land barges. Small cars like Honda's Fit and Civic, and Toyota's Yaris and Corolla, are flying off the dealer lots

Gas here is now $1 a litre. When Hurricane Ike went through, our gas went to $1.50 a litre

 

GM's loses are due to very high structural costs put in place when GM had 40-50% of the market. The UAW's pay structure did get out of line, but it was a main driver of the wages of millions of other Americans and Canadians.

As for your conversation with someone about Hyundai, i would love to know the name and rank of the individual. A conversation at the local dealership does not account for much.

The brass at toyota is secretly amazed at the continual poor treatment the Detroit 3, especially GM, is given in the US media.

The Prius has provided toyota with a great "green" halo under which it has sold millions of vehicles which if branded by GM would be deemed as guzzlers by folks like you. The Prius will not account for 5% of toyota's sales in the United States. I am not sure why toyota is continually given a free pass by the likes of your self.

 

I've never been impressed by overpaid, underworked, union thugs. Short term gain has now bankrupted all of us

A local dealership manager. Yes, he is in the process of acquiring a Hyundai dealership

"Secretly" amazed? Any names or ranks associated with that?

When you compare the pickup and suv offerings, there is little difference between any of them. After having "enjoyed" a complete POS 2000 GMC Sierra, I wouldn't drive another GM vehicle if you paid me to do so.

It didn't help matters that GM Canada and the GMC Truck dealership completely s*** on me once I started having problems: the well-known Vortec knock-knock-knock and oil burning, AutoTrak mode select cluster failures, leaky union-made American Axle & Manufacturing rear end, etc

However, the marketplace is also about choice. Toyota will also happily sell you a Yaris or Corolla, and those two cars are the bread and butter of most Toyota dealerships. I still find it amazing that GM will piss and moan about not being able to make money on smaller vehicles (So they claim), yet over in the EU, that's all they do - and GM does it very well in the EU.

Why can't GM produce a decent small and mid sized car here?

Quite frankly, I don't trust Toyota. I don't trust *any* large global corporation. They're all the same: a bunch of back-stabbing, amoral, criminal crackpots who only look out for themselves, how to fund the purchase of another Gulfstream 550 corporate jet, or a multi-million dollar severance package

I'm treated very nicely by my Toyota dealership, which helps right there. Completely different than the retards at the GMC Truck dealership where I was dumb enough to actually pay money for a 2000 GMC Sierra. So I'm willing to overlook the fact that Toyota is just one more greedy, amoral, crackpot global corporation

I have to admit, I'm really dumbfounded just how quickly that "bailout" sailed through. Kind of obvious who benefits from the generosity of guilable taxpayers, should I say future generations of indentured servitude?

I guess I'm just really steamed over how the bunch of liars, thieves, and crackpots in government and big business managed to hoodwink all of us. When it's in their favor, they loudly decry "socialism" and demand Free Markets.

When the Free Market is set to punish them, they suddenly rush to the bad ole government and demand hundreds of billions of dollars. Nice.

 

I was a bit confused by the 'socialist' rhetoric too, but I think I understand now:

Help for an individual is "socialism"
Help for a Corp is "in the best interests of the country"

 

all i can say is that i'm glad we're not associated with any of that business anymore. things sucked this time last year, but they're worse now.