Using PIP As A Generator

Pulling only 1.5kW (in stead of 5kW) off a hybrid is what makes it a waste. That's why PriUPS.com came to be.


SGH-I717R ? 2

 

...just purchased... a good pure sine wave inverter - pls check out the Wattage, VDC and VAC (in red)...

"Turn your Prius into an efficient, quiet and clean gas generator!
One tank of gasoline lasts 60 hours at full load or one week on normal household usage
Applicable to 2004-2012 Prius, PriusV and Plug-in Prius"

PWRI2000S240VDC
AIMS 2000 WATT 240 VOLT PURE SINE POWER INVERTER

FEATURES

2000 WATT CONTINUOUS POWER
3000 WATT SURGE POWER
COMPACT AND LIGHTWEIGHT
DUAL AC RECEPTACLES / OFF SWITCH
LOW BATTERY VOLTAGE WARNING / SHUTDOWN
OVER TEMPERATURE INDICATOR
OVERLOAD PROTECTION
INCLUDES REMOTE SWITCH
HIGH INPUT VOLTAGE PROTECTION WITH AUTOMATIC SHUTDOWN
OVER LOAD INDICATOR
COOLING FANS THERMALLY CONTROLLED
AC OUTPUT SHORT CIRCUIT PROTECTION
SPECIFICATIONS
DC INPUT / OPERATING VOLTAGE: 180-260 VDC
OUTPUT VOLTAGE:120 VOLTS AC
OUTPUT VOLTAGE REGULATION: +/- 3%
OUTPUT FREQUENCY: 60 HZ
BATTERY LOW VOLTAGE ALARM: 180 VDC VOLTS
HIGH BATTERY VOLTAGE SHUTDOWN: 260 VDC
NO LOAD POWER CONSUMPTION: < 0.4 AMPS
DC AMPS - 9A
AC AMPS - 17
FULL LOAD EFFICIENCY: 90%
1/3 LOAD EFFICIENCY:95%
AC OUTPUT SOCKET TYPE: DUAL TYPE 2-3 PRONG
HIGH INPUT VOLTAGE PROTECTION: 280V
LOW INPUT VOLTAGE SHUTDOWN: 170V
INTERNAL BLADE FUSE PROTECTION
DIMENSIONS: 15”L X 6”W X 3.4”H
WEIGHT: 15 LBS
FREE 1 YEAR TECH SUPPORT
1 YEAR WARRANTY PARTS AND LABOR

 

Umm, no. 3 days on one tank at 2000 watts isn't going to happen, or a week with "normal household useage". I've run most of my house (all of the 120 volt circuits) for 26 hours from my UPSs. Using ~200 watt-hour overnight for base loads, and about 1500 watt-hours in the evenings and mornings used 0.13 gallons/hour on average. Which will give me 60 hours on one tank at far less than 2000 watt-hour for the entire 60 hours.

A used APC will give you 4 kw (6.5 kw surge) for 1/3 the cost of that AIMS inverter.

 

Got your point re: standalone UPS. For several reasons that don't matter here but that revolve around space issues in a 1930's small house, I chose to design a solution that uses the PiP as the UPS . I'll post some pics as the project solidifies.

 

...I'm curious now - how much do you think such a used APC would run to purchase? and then there'd be eventual battery replacement costs too in a couple of years...

 

You need to click the link in my signature. I wasn't using the UPS with the usual lead-acid batteries... it was being powered by my Prius, too.

All in the sig link...no batts, and both of my UPSs cost me about $150.

 

I have two for sale $50.00 each plus shipping

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powercom KIN-2200AP 2200 VA 1320 Watts 6 Outlets UPS

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APC BACK-UPS RS 1300VA LCD 120V

APC BACK-UPS RS 1300VA LCD 120V [Select a different product]

Capacity: 780 Watts / 1300 VA
Part Number: BR1300LCD

 

The APC Back-ups line can't accept the 201 volts nominal from the traction battery, only Smart-UPS between 3000 and 6000 watts (not below, not above).

 

Hey TechnTrek, I just read all the other thread posts from your sig block. It seems we're not too far apart - I'll send you a PM. I'm curious to see your setup to get ideas for my li'l hovel...

 

Not sure I understand your math here. You used 1700 watt-hours (1500 + 200) in a day, and 3.12 (0.13 * 24) gallons per day, is that correct? That is an efficiency of 1.7% (1.7 / (3.12 * 32.2). There is something wrong there.

3 days at 2000 watts (for a 11 gallon tank) would be 40.6% efficient. Which sounds a bit high but not outrageously so.

A week of my normal usage would only require 10% efficiency. No problem.

 

Figured it all out...

Removable 5000 watt 240v inverter which is housed in or very very near the Prius, and is designed to utilize the full voltage of the Prius traction battery, therefore reducing high amperage D/C concerns.
Run the 240v A/C cord to the gen switch giving the house the ability to utilize both legs of the power distribution panel so ALL appliances in the house work per choice of the user.
Enjoy the quiet alternative
Pull unit out of car when power returns
Store on shelf in garage, basement, attic, TV console, where ever you feel like it
Drive to gas station and refuel
or
mount inverter inside and run short D/C cables to it

reality is for emergency power unless you have very high needs or very long times, efficiency difference is going to yield very little difference over the lifetime of the system.

Until I get my Prius

I have a very large set of cables prewired in my truck with a high amp quick connect. Power goes out, I reach on my top shelf in my garage for my inverter which cost $150 and plug it in.
Its in the garage, trucks outside cables under the door. House is powered, food, lights, etc.
Run the truck for 20 minutes every 2 hours (remote starter and phone reminder) totals 4 hours per day at .44 gallons per hour =1.76 gallons per day. (if all is perfect)
26 gallon tank= 2 weeks
oil change ~40 weeks of idle@ 4hours per day
Frequently lose power here for multiple days

I'm guessing based on all the different models of the Prius I have driven, it is going to be slightly more efficient than my 5.3L v8

 

Nobody said the Prius was efficient as a generator. It was never meant to be. The best example of its inefficiency would be to imagine that it's simply running to keep its own traction battery charged. Just like a regular generator - if there isn't a constant load on it - continually being used - then the gas simply goes to waste. Parasitic loss ... the loss that stems from the power simply being available.

SGH-I717R ? 2

 

bingo, but it does the job in a pinch

 

That's not to say you can't have a high efficiency generator. Consider the capstone natural gas / propane micro turbine generator. I think it was mentioned above. It's perfect if you can swallow the huge price. All things in life are series of trade offs.
How one inventor wants to boost EVs with a towable turbine | Motoramic - Yahoo! Autos
SGH-I717R ? 2

 

You misread my numbers. The term "watt-hour" refers to the watts used per hour. So ~1500 watt-hour (per hour) for about 5 hours in the evening, and ~1500 watt-hour for about 3 hours in the morning, then 200-300 watt-hour for all the other hours of the day.

 

Almost, my setup keeps the UPS in the garage and is attached to the Prius using a standard 12 gauge extension cord. However, I have put the UPS in the Prius to make it a portable generator. Most of the time the UPS acts like a normal UPS keeping brownouts and shorter outages away with normal UPS batts. When a long-term outage strikes the Prius is fed in on the UPS's DC bus.

 

Far from the truth. It actually functions as efficiently as a 1000 or 2000 watt Honda inverter-generator while actually giving you the ability of a 4000 watt inverter-generator. See my sig link for test numbers.

Remember that the Prius operates even better than an inverter-generator because it keeps the engine at an efficient RPM while running but then can shut down with a low (or no) load. The only thing it must supply is 200 watts for its own use so you'll still get some engine run time with no loads, but not much. You can cut down on the waste by turning off the screen, turning off the A/C system, etc.

 

<double post>

 

A watt is a unit of power. Exert that power for some unit of time, and you have energy. Watt-hours really are watts times hours. If you used 10 kilowatt-hours of electricity over a period of 5 hours, your average power consumption rate would be 10 kilowatt-hours/5 hours = 2 kilowatts. If you are pulling 2 kilowatts for 5 hours, you have used 2 kilowatts times 5 hours = 10 kilowatt-hours of energy. "per" is used to describe a rate of some kind, like miles per hour, or equivalently, miles/hour.

 

Using Prius as generator is a really cool project, but lets try to figure out this efficiency thing.

When Prius battery is at 2 bars it will start to charge the battery with ICE and MG1. Watching the Torque app if I remember correctly the ICE was running at 1,200 rpm and providing only around 50 Nm of Torque (It may be even lover), this gives us around 6 kW of power. Looking at the BSFC graph the engine under this conditions is running at 270 (g/(kW·h)), this means only 30% efficiency. The other problem is the engine will never reach optimum temperature (and efficiency) if the electricity load from your house is light. There is also parasitic draw of around 200 W from the car standing still.

Here is theoretical calculation for 0.13 gal of gas:
0.13 gal = 4.29 kWh(energy content) * 0.3 (30% efficiency) = 1.29 kWh * 0.8 (MG2, battery charge discharge loss) = 1.03 kWh - 0.2 kWh (car parasitic loss) = 0.83 Wh

In theory you are getting under 20 % efficiency from the gas, in practice I don't think you used 20 kWh/day of electricity in emergency situation, my guess would be we are looking at the efficiency of around 10-15% in practice.

A dedicated generator doing average 600-800 W will also have bad efficiency, comparable to Prius. If you would want to save gas you would have to be running any generator (or Prius) only for couple of hours a day at high load.