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VERY loud rattle, abruptly vanished, now temperature warnings?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Quantum Cat, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. Quantum Cat

    Quantum Cat New Member

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    Hi there, hoping y'all can help me some.

    My 2006 Prius developed a rather loud rattle in the motor after a while; it got bad enough that I would only drive short distances, grocery store and such. The mechanic said that it sounded a lot like the timing chain was about to go, and noted that they'd just had another (non-Prius) car in that sounded exactly the same shortly before the timing chain went and destroyed the engine.

    Not having much choice in alternate transportation and not having the $$$ to replace the timing chain, I continued to use my poor baby to run just down the street to the store and back. The rattling gradually disappeared almost completely; however, a couple of weeks after it did as I was driving I got the red triangle of Doom repeatedly and a temperature warning on my way back home. When I got home I smelled coolant, though there were no leaks under the car.

    Prius still starts up, but I now have the "check engine" light (I was moving her out of the garage for a moment, not going anywhere) and I'm wondering what exactly happened here (and how much it's likely to cost to fix.)

    I had the traction battery replaced in January, so between that and a few other repairs I'm loathe to waste the investment; I'd really prefer to repair, but I'm also on a limited budget and something like replacing the timing chain is beyond my limited skills.
     
  2. Travis Decker

    Travis Decker Active Member

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    It's probably misfiring and rattling the planetary gearset. You need to scan it and get fault codes before jumping to conclusions
     
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  3. Kevin_Denver

    Kevin_Denver Active Member

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    Take it to your local auto parts store and get the OBD code read for free. Google the code with the word "Prius" and post back as needed.
     
  4. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    How many miles on the car.

    Have you checked the oil and the engine coolant level?
     
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  5. IMkenNY

    IMkenNY Im just being nosy

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    The noise could have been a bad water pump and it or the serpentine belt may have failed completely.
    I would look to see if the belt is still present.
     
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  6. Quantum Cat

    Quantum Cat New Member

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    The fault code is P0111 -- decidedly not the conclusion you jumped to.
     
  7. Quantum Cat

    Quantum Cat New Member

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    Almost 150k and yes; they're fine.
     
  8. Quantum Cat

    Quantum Cat New Member

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    JUST had the serpentine replaced recently, actually. I'm seeing P0111 as the code, but while it's an easy (and cheap) enough fix I have to wonder if there's something else going on. The rattle that abruptly vanished is really bugging me.
     
  9. Travis Decker

    Travis Decker Active Member

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    That code does not exist for your car according to Toyota......

    Just trying to help ;)

    As somebody who owns a Prius repair shop, my replies might sometimes be short but I'm trying to help the people on this board get accurate information. A "conclusion" is something that I would reach after having some evidence and data. A "suggestion" is just that. Best of luck to you in getting your car fixed.

    In the professional world we would want to see a freeze frame from techstream with the code, information code if there is one, and then we have some data to work with. [​IMG]
     
  10. Quantum Cat

    Quantum Cat New Member

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    I work with what I have; here are the screenshots from the sensor that was available to me. (There is no shop near enough to drive it to.)




     

    Attached Files:

  11. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Sadly, what you have is insufficient. As previously stated, P0111 is not a valid Prius DTC. So that is not going to help you. If you want to DIY you might want to invest in Mini VCI.

    It sounds like your car has at least two issues:

    Overheating:
    1. check the inverter coolant reservoir for turbulence when the Prius is READY, which would show the inverter pump is running
    2. check the engine radiator fluid level in the radiator itself. This means removing the black plastic cover over the radiator for access to the radiator cap. Do not rely upon looking just at the overflow container behind the radiator.
    3. Inspect all coolant hoses and the radiator, looking for signs of a leak. Look at the engine coolant pump bearing, for signs of antifreeze leaking. You may just see a whitish or pinkish powdery stain. If you can smell coolant then there is a leak somewhere.

    Engine noise which went away: First figure out why the car is overheating and resolve that. Then see how the engine performs.
     
  12. Quantum Cat

    Quantum Cat New Member

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    On other threads it's been mentioned on that code seems to be used as a starting point. Interesting variance.

    Fluid levels are fine, though I need to double-check the inverter reservoir since this is a new thing. Checked the radiator, both places, multiple times, long since.

    No visible leaks in car or underneath (kept in a garage); the coolant smell was only the once, which seems extremely odd to me.

    The engine noise went away before the car started overheating; I have not ruled out a connection between the two. (Bearings in the pump going? *shrug* Don't know yet.)

    DIY is to keep maintenance costs down where I can, since I've been fixing/tinkering with cars for something like 24 years. I tended to have older ones, though, so navigating a hybrid is... interesting. Normally I do have a code reader but an ex stole my last one and I've not been immobilized enough to be unable to get to the shop or mechanic since, so I've been procrastinating (and can't get one right now for budget reasons, annoyingly.)



     
  13. Quantum Cat

    Quantum Cat New Member

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    Ah-HA! I haven't checked turbulence yet but I will bet there's none AND the issues are all linked. I just ran across a video, with sound, of a water pump with bad bearings. EXACT same noise I was hearing! And a failed water pump would cause incoming air not to be cooled (P1xxx codes are Toyota-specific, but the P0xxx seem to be generic and Toyota doesn't have a rep for illogical deviations from the herd; it's reasonable to suspect that the code is at least tangentially related to a bad intake air temperature sensor, if not specifically that.)

    And I happen to have the mechanic manual (I forget the precise name and it's in the other room, but it's the official Big Book of Prius Repairs) to walk me through changing THAT, which is far less daunting than trying to replace the timing chain and associated bits that include the water pump. Thanks for the turbulence reminder, Patrick! That's what started the chain of research. I'll update when I replace it; worst case I have a new water pump, which isn't going to hurt anything.
     
  14. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    A failed inverter coolant pump has nothing to do with intake air temp.

    A failed inverter coolant pump does not make you smell coolant. You had a mecahanic look at the car
    And he says timing chain is making the rattle.

    I think you have 2 issues. The engine coolant radiator is probably empty because the engine water pump is blown and leaking or the belt fell off and you overheated the motor and probably spun a piston bearing and the inverter coolant pump is probably blown and hell lets throw the hybrid battery is bad too in there.
     
  15. Quantum Cat

    Quantum Cat New Member

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    I don't currently have the tools, so I sent a new pump (and serpentine because it's coming off anyway) in to the mechanic.

    He described the old water pump as having "blown apart"; it certainly doesn't look very nice (pic attached.) Apparently it'd been leaking for a while; what I heard was indeed the bearings dying. (Note: Don't do that.)

    All specs are back in nominal ranges now, cooling fine and purring like a kitten. No sensors dead or anything. It was only a gruesomely dead water pump.
     

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  16. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    It's not a serpentine belt it's a regular old belt like used for fans. Fan belt.

    The engine bay must have stunk of coolant as it was leaking profusely out of the Pump and probably hosed down the front of the engine. It would have smelled in the car too. I am pretty sure the whole front of the car from the outside probably stunk.

    That would have surely tipped you off when you checked the oil but I suspect you just blew me off when I asked about the oil level.

    Pay attention to smells in a car they will give you warning of impending doom.
     
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  17. johnnyb588

    johnnyb588 Member

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    I see absolutely no reason to make that distinction. The Prius service manual calls it a "drive belt" if you really want to get picky, but everyone and their mom knew what Quantum Cat was talking about. Fan belt/serpentine belt/alternator belt/etc. technically mean different things, but are used interchangeably almost universally. Fan belt is just a bit antiquated. In this case, "serpentine" would be more appropriate than "fan."
    I don't know what problems you have in life, but this is a direct quote from earlier in the thread...
    Quantum Cat literally responded to you directly and acknowledged that he accepted your advice and followed through on checking the oil level. I'm not sure what else you think needed to be done.
     
  18. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    My point **** was if Cat had actually opened the hood he or she would have seen and smelled a lot of coolant all over the front of the engine alerting them that the engine water pump had exploded. Coolant stinks even you could detect it.

    And there's a big difference between a serpentine belt and a v belt.
    Sorry you have no clue about belts there not interchangable, Serpentine is a completely different belt than a v belt and require completely different pulleys. Clueless.

    And still waiting for your list of posters that say a hybrid charger will damage the battery or not help at all.
     
    #18 edthefox5, Aug 17, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2017
  19. johnnyb588

    johnnyb588 Member

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    Insults aside, you're still wrong on your belt discussion.

    I agree that there's a difference between a serpentine belt and v belt. The belt for the water pump on a Prius is a poly-v (also commonly referred to as serpentine, but the most accurate term for this belt would technically be "drive belt"). It is not a v belt, and I never said anything about v belts, so I'm not really sure why you brought them up, unless you're thinking the belt in question IS a v belt, in which case you're just compounding your incorrect notions. To be honest, it seems like you're confused over which belt we're talking about here and/or you're an old timer mixing up terminology (v belts and fan belts aren't very common any longer).
     
  20. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I call the belt a "serpentine" belt. More importantly, Toyota's parts catalog does as well.

    Capture.PNG
    The Toyota factory repair manual calls it a V-ribbed belt. However, the repair manual also mentions a fan and generator, and we all know that the belt actually powers neither a fan nor a generator.
    Capture 1.PNG

    I hope we can put that aside and move on.
     
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