1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Very weak coolant flow on inverter reservoir

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by valde3, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    2,002
    745
    0
    Location:
    Finland
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    My 2004 Prius seems to have very weak coolant flow in the inverter coolant reservoir. Sometimes (I've only seen this with cold engine) the flow is so weak that you can open the cap and see that surface is almost mirror calm. But if you look at it for long enough you see that there is very slow flow on the surface. Other times you can see some ripple on the surface but it’s still weaker than on the videos online. Pump itself always seem to vibrate about the same.

    How I see this it can only be caused by bad pump or blockage in the system? Has anybody else run into this? Which one of those problems is more likely?

    Prius only has about 190tkm or 120t miles. Inverter coolant has been replaced couple years ago. I think the flow was stronger then. No fault codes but weather might be cold enough not to get codes even without any coolant circulation.
     
  2. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    10,096
    4,795
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I replaced my fluid a few years in after I bought my car new in 07. It had pretty good flow nothing really great. But after I changed it the coolant looked like it was boiling the flow is so aggressive. And has been like that ever since now 8 years later. That first break in period of maybe 30,000 miles is tough on the fluid as it see's a huge cross section of pretty pure aluminium that is highly corrosive. I think thats why there was a TSB on the pumps the aluminum contamination is very hard on the pump. The aluminum heat sink for the coolant is under the Inverter and its pretty cool how the chambers are set up. Impressive heat sink with huge cross section.

    You say the pump was replaced but they may have never got all the air out of it. And I can almost guarantee the original fluid was never changed when the pump was replaced. They just duckbill the hoses off and throw a new pump in. Awful.

    Given the importance of this pump I would buy a new OEM pump and 2 gallons of Toyoal LLC and replace the pump and put new fluid in it. And bleed it good. New oem pump is like $50 on eBay. LLC is $20 a gallon last time I looked.

    The Inverter is the heart and soul of this car. Like alot of things on this car its an Engineering marvel.

    .
     
  3. terramir

    terramir Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    305
    47
    2
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Hey how much weaker is it relative to this???

    It was a heck of alot slower. I would flush it with distilled water like 5-6 times and then check the speed you might not even need a pump might just be gunk.
    terramir
     
  4. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,199
    6,464
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I haven't had this problem, but my guess is that the system is clogged. I personally would just use a garden hose to flush out the system with the drain plug removed. I don't think it is necessary to use distilled water as the system should allow substantially all fluid to come out of the drain hole.
     
  5. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    2,002
    745
    0
    Location:
    Finland
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    No. The coolant was replaced 4 years ago. And there’s no air in the system. Pump was probably replaced under the service campaign long ago.

    I just don’t want to replace the pump and fluid and then find out that it’s still not properly working. That’s why I would really like to know before replacing parts.

    A lot slower. You just see a slow flow on the calm surface. What do you mean by flushing? Fill it and just drain?

    Adding pain water to system just doesn’t sound that good of an idea. But perhaps no matter if I use distilled or tap water I should fill it twice with SLLC coolant to make sure that it’s not diluting as it has only the freezing point of -36c or -33F
     
  6. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    2,002
    745
    0
    Location:
    Finland
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I did test the pump by connecting the hose to bleed valve. Pump did have enough pressure to slowly push the coolant higher than the (top of the opened) hood. But as I don’t have anything to compare it to test just does not tell me much. Coolant coming out of the bleed valve and coolant in the reservoir looks pretty good.
     
  7. terramir

    terramir Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    305
    47
    2
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    II
    I mean fill and turn it to acc a few times and make sure you bleed it as well. One hint it's a heck of alot easier to get the loop going if the pump is still working if the car is level. Put plug in hand tight after drain fill with distilled water cause it will want to disolve impurities in your system with a vengeance, drinking distilled water can kill a person if they drink enough cause it will suck the minerals out of your body. That's in layman's terms but it gets the point across water naturally wants to have something disolved in it. So distilled water will much more aggressively disolve impurities that are water soluble.
    If after bleeding the water is moving somewhat wait a few minutes with the loop running, turn off and dump again and then do it over several times hoping whatever is gunk in the system up is coming loose.
    And yeah draining the system for like 10 min the last time will ensure the sllc won't get diluted in any way that would matter 3 qts vs a few drops furget about it!
    terramir
     
  8. terramir

    terramir Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    305
    47
    2
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Where the heck do you live that you worry about a -36 c freezing point???
    The Arctic circle, Alaska?
    terramir
     
  9. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    2,002
    745
    0
    Location:
    Finland
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Finland, Europe. -36c is enough but not with a big margin. I really don’t want to start thinking about that when it gets really cold. So I don’t want to dilute the pre-mix coolant.
     
  10. terramir

    terramir Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    305
    47
    2
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    II
    You won't just let it drain a few minutes after the last flush. But seriously 1st things 1st get rid of clog then worry about water contamination if need be take 30 min and then dump about 1/2 a liter sllc through the system to take some more water droplets out. But 1st make sure you get it flowing again and even if you have to dump 10 gallons of distilled water through the system. (That would be enough for about 18 flushes.
    Or take a waterhose in reverse to the system if worse comes to worse. To do that effectively you'll have to remove the reservoirs though. Solve problem 1st then deal with a little bit of water.
    My $.02
    terramir
     
  11. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    2,002
    745
    0
    Location:
    Finland
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Yep I’m with you on those. Except I’m still not sure if I just have a bad pump.

    Unfortunately I can’t really do much this weekend or maybe even next week so I do have time just to think about it.
     
  12. terramir

    terramir Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    305
    47
    2
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Remember that pump cools two of the most expensive parts on this car the inverter and the cvt. And picking up distilled water is easy and cheap housewives need it for their iron and fancy steamers everyday. Flushing the system with $1 water bottles is alot cheaper than $25 sllc. And on another note you gotta catch the sllc because it will kill cats and dogs and they are attracted to it and it's sweet to them. But the water only to check if you found contaminates. Better get it done rather sooner than later. And if you restore the flow you might just see a boost in mpg as well.
    terramir
     
  13. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,199
    6,464
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Since the OP is concerned about the coolant freezing temp in the winter, I suggest he consider using Toyota LLC instead of SLLC, since the former can be purchased as 100% antifreeze, hence the amount of distilled water added can be based upon expected low temps, and the mix can be as strong as 70% antifreeze/30% distilled water. That will yield a freezing temp of -58 degrees C.

    The only problem with LLC is that the change interval spec is 30K miles vs. 50K miles with SLLC.

    I believe that current high temps in Finland are above freezing, so it should not be a problem to use a garden hose to aid the flushing. The benefit of that is that you can utilize water pressure from the hose to aid removing any clogs.

    But if the OP prefers to buy distilled water for the flushing purpose, that is his business.
     
  14. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    2,002
    745
    0
    Location:
    Finland
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    SLLC is fine as long as I don’t leave much extra water with it.

    I’m just trying to figure if it’s just a bad pump or blockage.

    Coolant just looks to be in good condition. So couldn’t it just be a bad pump? I know for sure that nothing has been added to the system since 4 years ago when coolant was changed and old coolant looked good as well. So it just seems weird that there would be blockage in the system.
     
  15. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,199
    6,464
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Well, please go ahead and replace the pump, then.
     
  16. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    2,002
    745
    0
    Location:
    Finland
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I’m just trying to figure it out. I can’t do anything today or tomorrow as I need at least the coolant to fill the system afterwards. And if I want to replace the pump I have to wait for longer as nobody stocks the pump. So no matter what I do, I do have time to speculate.

    I can only find terramir having a blocked inverter cooling loop here. Whereas inverter cooling pump failures seem to happen quite often here. But of course I do know that this doesn’t tell anything about my case.
     
  17. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    2,002
    745
    0
    Location:
    Finland
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I replaced the pump and the coolant. Old coolant looked good. After bleeding the air out coolant flow was pretty much the same as I have seen on some videos. I also drove it around and check that there are no leaks and flow is still good.

    But then next day (temperature 5c or 41F) I just turned it to ign-on (power button twice with no brake) and check the coolant flow. It’s small enough that you can just see the surface heading to front! So a lot less flow than in any of the videos I have seen. Then I turned it to ready and pressed the EV to keep the gas engine from starting. Coolant flow only increased a bit.

    But then after driving it a bit coolant flow looked the same as in some videos. Almost seems like the system would have a thermostat as Toyota dealership claimed.

    Has anybody looked how much coolant flow there should be with first start in the morning? At what temperature?
     
  18. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,199
    6,464
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    To what extent did you actually flush the system with water?
    Would you say that the coolant flow is better now, compared to the flow rate described in your OP #1?
    I do not believe that a thermostat is regulating coolant flow.
     
  19. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2014
    2,002
    745
    0
    Location:
    Finland
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Filled the system with water. Bled it and let it run for a bit. Drained it. Pinched the hose that goes from reservoir to pump and poured water in with drain open (that forces the water to go through the (almost complete) system backwards).

    Flow rate is a bit better. But still no ripple on the surface it’s just slowly flowing towards the front of the reservoir where the outlet to the pump is.

    I’m sure there’s no thermostat. Toyota manual doesn’t talk anything about it. And testing the old pump it pumps cold water just fine.
     
  20. MathWeijzen

    MathWeijzen Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2020
    74
    3
    0
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    New oem pump is like $50 on eBay.....where???