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VIN tags missing?

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by samcat, Aug 12, 2022.

  1. samcat

    samcat New Member

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    I've been looking at buying a 2017 Prius (three). Just had the shop check it over, and they noticed that it doesn't seem to have any VIN numbers on the inside of the car. Otherwise the car is in very good condition, low mileage, one owner, clean car fax (for whatever that's worth).

    Any thoughts? Anyone come across this before? Should I be worried?
     
  2. AzWxGuy

    AzWxGuy Weather Guy

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    Worried? Maybe. Isn't it a state or federal law that the VIN must be visible at all times, hence the dashboard tag at the bottom of the windshield on the driver side. There is a frame crossbar on the floor in front of the passenger seat that has a plastic cover inside of which I believe you can find the VIN.
     
    #2 AzWxGuy, Aug 13, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2022
  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Might be a frame number under that cover instead of a VIN. I'm not sure.

    Any VIN tags on it anywhere? The one on the dash under the windshield? On the engine? On the tranny? Do the VINs match?
     
  4. AzWxGuy

    AzWxGuy Weather Guy

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    My plastic cover says Frame Number/VIN.
     
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  5. Elektroingenieur

    Elektroingenieur Senior Member

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    The VIN should be marked in the three places shown in the Owner’s Manual (PDF), page 723: on the certification label, under the windshield glass, and stamped into the frame (as @AzWxGuy kindly mentioned, under a plastic cover in front of the right front seat). If it’s missing from any of these places, it’s a red flag: the car might or might not have been stolen, but I’d consider the possibility that there has been serious body damage, and that the repair shop didn’t bother to buy a replacement label from Toyota (PDF) or from a supplier such as ECS Automotive Concepts.

    Toyota obtained a parts-marking exemption from NHTSA for the Prius line (77 FR 4396), for model years 2013 and later, so you shouldn’t expect to find VIN or R DOT labels on other body parts or etched into the windows, unless these happened to have been applied as an aftermarket service.
    On my car, the full, seventeen-character VIN appears in all three locations. I’d expect to find a frame number only on vehicles built for sale in Japan, where VINs aren’t required. At least on Prius cars, there is a one-to-one correspondence between VINs and frame numbers: for example, if the basic model code is ZVW51 and the last seven characters of the VIN are 3000001, then the frame number would be ZVW51-3000001.
    More or less. Federal regulations require automakers to apply a VIN marking that is “readable, without moving any part of the vehicle, through the vehicle glazing” (49 CFR 565.13(f)), and I’ve posted before about the laws that protect these markings.
     
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if the vin isn't on the dash, i'd drive from the mech to the police station
     
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  7. Doug McC

    Doug McC Active Member

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    As a Kenny Rogers song said “….know when to walk away, know when to run”!!!! Call the California DMVand ask them what they think. If it’s like most things CA, and I lived in CA, I’d run. At best, you could find yourself with one heck of a headache at some point down the road. Some states check those type of things when you apply for a license and title. Leave it for some other sucker.
    The fact that you’re asking the question tells me you know what you really need to do.
     
  8. Doug McC

    Doug McC Active Member

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    I just did a search for this. Try that and decide what you want to do .
     
  9. Elektroingenieur

    Elektroingenieur Senior Member

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    I agree with the advice not to buy if the VIN markings are defective, but it’s not clear that’s the situation here.

    We won’t know for sure unless @samcat makes a follow-up posting and it’s approved by a moderator, but I think it’s more likely the shop is just clueless: they were expecting to find parts-marking labels all over the car—that is, in the places listed in 49 CFR 541.5(a)—and they didn’t know that they needed to check the list in Part 541, Appendix A, to see that Prius cars have been exempted from this federal requirement.

    This wouldn’t speak well for the shop’s reliability as a pre-purchase inspector, but it’s hardly a reason to walk away, provided the three required VIN markings, discussed above, are present and consistent with the seller’s certificate of title, and a CARFAX or similar vehicle history report doesn’t show any problems.
    No need for the long wait on hold: just see the Vehicle Verifications topic in the Vehicle Industry Registration Procedures Manual, the Vehicle Verifier License Handbook (OL 301) (PDF), and memorandum VIN 2018-11, Revised Verification of Vehicle Form (PDF).

    Basically, if the certification label is missing, or there are any inconsistencies, the matter is referred to the California Highway Patrol. I expect DMV would eventually have to register the car, unless there’s some evidence it was stolen or unlawfully imported, but only after much cost and inconvenience for the owner.
     
  10. Doug McC

    Doug McC Active Member

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    “but only after much cost and inconvenience for the owner”
    My point exactly. Just how great a deal is it? For, there are soooo many other things I could be doing with my time. For the OP, look under the front of the right seat and you will have your answer.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    'doesn't seem to have any vin numbers on the inside of the car'

    i took to mean not on the dash, but i could be wrong
     
  12. Doug McC

    Doug McC Active Member

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    Or perhaps both places? One way or the other, it is one big, time consuming headache, let alone a red flag about the vehicle.
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    If not gone, the OP can clarify. If the VIN is in the three places Elektroingenieur mentioned, and just not in other places someone may have expected to find it, then the car is ok.
     
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  15. AzWxGuy

    AzWxGuy Weather Guy

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    Maybe because we were not properly introduced. So here is a "Welcome to PriusChat" to the OP. Maybe they are not accustomed to a forum where participants are so eager to assist. :D:cool:
     
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  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    maybe he asked the seller why the vin was missing, and he's in concrete shoes now
     
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  17. Daddychin

    Daddychin New Member

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    OP was thinking that most other vehicles have the factory VIN tags on most of the panels and bumpers, if any are missing or painted over then usually means that there was some significant body work performed. This is what I usually look for when purchasing a used car (my 2006 Honda S2000 has 10 VIN tags). My guess is that newer Toyotas don't have this, as my 2006 and 2010 Priuses had them.
     
  18. Doug McC

    Doug McC Active Member

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    “most of the panels and bumpers”????? Now I have no REAL Idea what the “OP was thinking” and don’t even pretend to, and this is the first time I have ever heard of VIN’s being on bumpers and body panels! Darn! Learn something new every day!
     
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  19. Todd Bonzalez

    Todd Bonzalez Active Member

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    Sounds highly unlikely as it would definitely add to the manufacturing cost, and would be an administrative nightmare in the factory during final assembly

    If you open the driver's door on a 2017 Prius the VIN is on the black sticker near the lock striker, staring you in the face. It's supposed to be easy to find and a big red flag if it's not there

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