Volt 2.0: Ruess "It will leap-frog... the competition"

Fuel cells are what the Japanese government and auto makers decided upon. There are some cookies at CARB that have personal investment in FCEVs, but Toyota wouldn't be lobbying them if they weren't getting large incentives from their own government for the home market. If CARB had been more technology neutral, Toyota would still lobby them for greater FCEV credits, but they might have continued with Tesla converting Rav4s for the ZEV mandate there. Any plug in sold, even short EV range ones like the PPI, lets the public get more comfortable with them, and lets them see that most of their apprehension about them was unfounded. This will hurt FCEV sales in Toyota's view.

FCEVs must be as dirty as BEVs, and they both move the harmful emissions out of population centers to a power plant where emission control is an easier prospect. Though tiny, the NOx, CO, and hydrocarbon emissions of a hybrid are still being emitted next to your house and on your street.

The difference in production costs between a BEV and a hybrid is due to the huge production infrastructure in place for the ICE car. The only thing that needs to come up to speed for BEVs is battery production, which it is.

 

We have been giving GM a much LARGER chance than Toyota ever had.
Its' called: Taxpayers' Bailout, and being "forgiven" by the Treasury Dept. in having GM payoff their entire bailout package. So, we the taxpayers have to dig deeper to pay it.Lets' be honest with ourselves and ask ourselves how many more times are we going to give GM the chance to keep screwing us?

The difference is: Toyota looks at the long term, GM only the short term.
DBCassidy

 

all i want from volt 2.0 is prius size hatch back and 50 mpg epa, with current ev range. is that too much to ask?

 

Imagine what Prius rollout would have been like with a $7,500 tax-credit. There was nothing but a deduction back then. Buyers got between $300 and $400.

After all this time and so much money, finally getting something to compete with the true competition (traditional vehicles) would be nice. That isn't too much to ask.

 

Again, produce a new car with new technology (to the company).
Both Toyota and GM did this, separated by a decade.

No, the car and their market are not identical.
They both started slow, and gained traction slowly.
Gen 1 Prius was not profitable.
Gen 1 Volt is not profitable.

Gen 2 Prius was.
Why demand that the Volt 1 is a failure for not being profitable?

 

Huh?

GM already had extensive motor & battery experience.... EV1 and Two-Mode ...were major efforts that cannot just be dismissed.

Toyota had nothing when it rolled out Prius.

Actually, it was.

That profit was achieved a year prior to the next generation through both refinements to production and diversification.

Remember Echo? That was a clever way of sharing some of the Prius production. The platform reused. The engine detuned.

GM set the sales goal, a necessary aspect of achieving profitability... agreements with third-party suppliers, dealer involvement, etc. The outcome was volume much lower and the need to slash prices.

Calling that outcome a "delay" instead is fine. But clearly, expectations were not met.

 

Yep, you are correct John.

DBCassidy

Er, like the non-existant Volt commercials. scant advertising - there is plenty of advertising failure. It seems like GM is not fully behind the product such as the Volt.
Even the lack of Volt advertising is a thorny issue over in the Volt users forums.

DBCassidy

 

It was said back in 2010: "Chevy Volt leap-frogged the Toyota Prius". So, how can you Leap-frog Gen III a second time?

 

fire up the gm hype machine once again. when the product disappoints, backtrack on every claim. the more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

The hype machine has kicked into high-gear already. I've been seeing quite a number of contradictory posts lately. Things enthusiasts wouldn't have been caught dead supporting in the past are now getting their full endorsement. Of course, we knew this was going to happen. Not witnessing a change in approach behavior meant the same pattern would repeat... again.

Meanwhile, the market is drawing closer to what Toyota has been working toward all along... a plug-in hybrid for the masses.

 

Pushing fuel cell cars over a BEV in California appears to say Toyota doesn't want to deal with the plug.

What is really telling is keeping Prius plug in availability to just 14 states for all this time. This gives the company limited or no consumer feed back in several markets. Expanded rollout would also get more dealers exposed to a PHV. I know car dealers can be clueless when it comes to hybrids and others, but waiting until the second generation PPI or other plug in will those in a large part of the country flat footed in terms of how to sell such a vehicle for the masses.

The second gen Volt will be revealed at the Detroit auto show in Dec or Jan. GM has said less about it, for shorter time, than with the first one's final reveal.

 

As far as I can tell GM effort is putting their big advertising money into convincing the viewer that a Buick is no longer the exclusive car of the over 80 crowd. However, in all fairness I have seen more Volt commercials than PiP commercials.

 

Look the other direction. Toyota learned from the other automakers what not to do.... namely, don't follow the same path they took, regardless of how counter-intuitive it seems.

 

Other than Prius PHEV, Not interested in plug-in hybrids if the hybrid ("Part of it") is compromised. Hope to be impressed in January, but I can do this right now with Gen III (no plug) on regular gas.

 

The question of WHO continues to be a mystery. What group of buyers will GM be targeting?

With gas here just $2.95 per gallon, Volt is an extremely difficult sale. How will it change to gain appeal?

 

That might simply be because the PPI isn't sold in Florida.

Just follow Honda, M-B, and now Hyundai in California now then. But then, doing plug in is also just moving with the crowd.

But what can you get in a Japanese gen1?

GM had to compromise on the ICE for time and cost. Then further compromised possible ICE efficiency in favor of creature comfort. Seems like most people won't put up annoying noises and vibrations along with extreme temperatures in pursuit of efficiency like us dedicated ones.

 

While traveling I have certainly not seen the ads is states where the do sell the PiP. A look on the internet shows the following ad was put out:

But I wonder. Is this an ad or an anti-ad for the PiP?

 

The little TV I watch is mostly basic cable, and mostly recorded. So I can't even recall what the last auto ad I saw was for. Likely a truck or crossover though.

Hybrids in general seemed to get little advertising. The last one I remember was for the MKZ. The ad budget mostly goes to the main sedan and the higher profit trucks, crossovers, and minivans it seems.

 

But, then again Tesla doesn't seem to produce commercials. Tesla is moving product while GM gets more nervous.

Ah, the beauty of knowing your buyers market and expanding upon it.

DBCassidy