Volt Job 1 scheduled for November 1!

Volt's top engineer Frank Weber left in Oct 2009. Now, Denise Gray is leaving. What will happen to the Volt and its future product? With these important people taking knowledge away with them, can they refine and improve future gens?

 

Because they have track record to produce a real feasible product from their research. Prius is very close to produce in the US without the US gov R&D support for it.

Money given to the big 3 for the Super Car project (PNGV) was simply wasted.

 

Not even in the same ballpark.

From the Bloomberg article

 

You are right it's not in the same ball park, by june of this year the loan that gm took will be paid back, it looks like it will be 10 YEARS before toyota pays back a dime.

 

I'm sorry, but you are either clueless or trolling. Carry on.

 

When will GM become profitable selling clean & efficient vehicles?

The problem many of us have with Volt is that it will be a low-volume seller with a negative cashflow for quite a number of years.
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The prius was developed using USA tax dollars and was a loss until gen II. correct me if I am wrong, but there is soo much negative feelings that people need to get over and it's clouding alot of people's judgement. The first gen prius was low volume (not as low as the volt will start out as but still low)

The volt used as a commuter car is clean and efficient, longer trips not so much. that's what it's targeted for (and again it's not for me, but it coud be right for someone) a commuter car without the fear of running out of power. the general public has range anxiety.

On the subject of Gm profitability, that's yet to be seen. After shuttering all of the competing brands and streamlining it might do very well. All I care about at this point is that the Gov't will have all of its money back before the end of the year. Toyota has 10 years to repay those bonds.

Now on to effiency of non hybrids. Toyota does not have ANY class leading MPG that is not the prius! That Gm commercial does have some truths in it. their cars are more fuel effecient than toyotas so i guess your wish is already granted. Quality is a whole different story and GM has the only pick up hybrid. If toyota expanded the HSD to more cars and suvs then GM would have nothing to talk.

On the accusation that I am a troll or clueless, I am neither. I'm not brainwashed to believe either pr spin. I point out the short coming of either companies. Both companies have done not so great things, but I look forward to both companies bringing their next gen tech to market. I take a wait and see with the Chevy Volt. I look forward the most to tesla and nissan's upcoming EV to be honest!

 

toyota has some great things, i'm not sure what gm has done. crushed all the ev-1's? bob klutz?

 

i had an 88 oldsmobile, used to have to pick up parts off the driveway. and a 2000? alero, then, they stopped making them. traded it in for a camry after i blew thru $600. trying to find a noise in the transaxle/wheel bearing/never found it. 5 toyota's later, havn't spent a penny on repairs and havn't looked back. but if the volt ever makes it, i'll buy one, if they give me a lifetime warranty!

 

I love selective memory . where everyone seems to remember gm's short comings and turn a blind eye to toyota's. It's not the 1990's, 1980's or 1970's or 1960's anymore. Toyota is slipping and needs to correct it. you had trouble with a 1988 oldsmobile, well my uncle has problems with his 2000 tacoma rusting uncontrollably. he has no floor in the cab (right behind the pedals) and rust/rotting right where the door meets, the body all along the sides of the bed rusted out. He spent 1500 on various repairs to the body, but once he patches one hole another appears.

so toyota says they will buy it back, but the price won't cover anything, but a down payment on a new car. How great is toyota? or tell the countless people that crashed their car because it accelerated uncontrollably? this is happening TODAY, not 20 years ago, not 6 years ago, today! I have an aunt that is petrified to drive her 2008 highlander, because of the gas pedal issue. She can't get an appointment with her dealership until next week, so what does she do? She rents a car, at her expense. How is that fair to her? She purposely choose to go with toyota for their quality and reliability and she is utterly let down. She won't be buying another toyota and she likes to buy cars....

I personally care about what happens now and in the future than what happened 20 years ago. My prius works flawlessly and I would buy another prius, but I won't buy a non hybrid toyota at this point. I owned a 1991 corolla which is still on the road (gave it to a relative), but I won't buy another corolla at this point. I will admit GM cars of the past have been very bad. i owned a 1996 Pontiac Bonnevile for about a month before I sold it. it handled like absolute crap so i sold it and bought a 1991 corolla. Take the "new" malibu out for a test drive. it handles and rides very nicely and gets better MPG than a 4cyl Camry.

Things change and companies change. They loose focus on what's important, which is quality and reliability. funny thing is today I received the 2010 auto issue from CR and most if not all of the toyota's (except the prius and venza) have been stripped of consumer reports "recommended" label. It must be a sad day when GM has more cars "recommended" than toyota. Ask me 2 years ago and I would never say i feel unsafe in a toyota, today is a whole different story.

Sorry for the rant/ highly opinionated-ness of my post, but the beginnings of what GM did to you all are starting to show in toyota. The massive part and body sharing that everyone criticized GM for (this pontiac is a rebadge chevy/gm/saturn/saab) toyota is lauded for.

Anyway back to topic.

 

You are wrong, on both counts. (Sorry to be blunt.) Only automakers from Detroit got PNGV money (none delivered, by the way) and Toyota managed modest profit in 2002.

Times were different back then too. There was the luxury of time available. The need for efficiency technology hadn't arrived yet. Now it's here and we are being told the only option that will be available is a long-shot that will require a number of years of waiting still.

What will GM be selling in the meantime?
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I've never heard of that. All of the promotion I've seen is it is targeted as the car of the future, the only vehicle you'll be driving.
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But how many of those barely-more-efficient vehicles do they actually sell?
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I stand corrected on the Pngv program. I particularly remember that even in 2004 there was heated discussion that the prius was not turning a profit and neither side could prove it. All the articles I read, Toyota stated that they were turning a profit where in reviews of Gen II. So it could have happened in 2002, but I guess it was not publicly known. But that leaves the question as to why reports ask the profitability if toyota was already making a profit for 2 years.

What number of years are you counting? the volt (just like the leaf) will be released, which will be limited, to key markets at the end of this year. With a full release in 2011. so how many years is that?

The volt is a commuter car and since most people don't go over 40 miles in a day with occasional longer trips. It could serve both purposes. So for a lot of people it could fit there needs now and in the future.

You complain the GM doesn't have "clean and fuel efficient cars" and I disprove it and you complain about how many they sell?
Perception and reality are two different things. I ask you to wait 4 months and see how fast toyotas will be selling with the way the senate keeps discovering emails and as more recalls are rolled out.

GM has a huge pr problem. they have improved some of their products and they are heading up hill. toyota seems to be heading in the other direction.

Oh and if electrification takes off that petty PHEV prius (which is not even in production and is years away, as your hyper-bole puts it )is not going to cut it. Toyota has NO realistic EV plans just the same as GM(the toyota iQ is a joke that won't sell in the USA).

All it really boils down to is what each company does now. Don't judge a book by it's cover. There is a big chance that if toyota doesn't handle this "crisis" well it could ruin them. PR is obviously important. Gm could right it's "ship" just like Ford did. Ford is doing phenomenal and has moved into the #2 hybrid seller behind toyota. would you have thought that 2 years ago? Hyundai is making good moves and in 5-10 years could be on top. I looks to me that the auto industry is at the point were at any instant the whole industry could change.

 

From release to no longer being sold at a loss. How many years?

GM has been saying that change will be when gen-2 becomes available, by 2015.
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Haven't you ever checked how many of that more-efficient model they actually sell? Offering a basic 4-cylinder but selling mostly the standard 6-cylinder is text-book greenwashing. What are the quantities?

Also, they don't really have anything that's both. For efficiency, Cruze will strive for 40 MPG highway. That would qualify. But it's still not available in the US. How come?
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As I understand it, out of the millions of Toyotas on the road, there have been about 30 accidents where the driver claimed that the throttle pedal was at fault. How many of those were people latching onto a news story to blame someone else for their own inattention to the road? One accident involved a highway patrol officer and has been verified to be a sticky pedal.

Even if all 30 were really defective cars, that's not "countless." And probably far less than 30 were really the pedal. People will blame anyone but themselves.

Then consider the likelihood: the number of cars on the road against the number of accidents due to defects, and you'll probably find that Toyota is still one of the safest cars on the road!

This particular defect is in the news because Toyota has never let such a defect through before (compare to the big three, who have so many defects that another one is not even news!) and because a few politicians see Japan-bashing as a way to get votes.

Bottom line: Look at all the accident statistics across the board, and I'll bet Toyota is still one of the safest cars you can drive, along with Volvo and probably Honda. I would buy another Toyota is a heartbeat, if they made an EV. I'm just not in the market for another gas-burner right now. My Prius has never given me any trouble and appears to have a lot of years left in it. Especially since nearly all my in-town driving is in the electric Zap Xebra these days.

 

I see ads by several different manufacturers claiming to be most fuel-efficient. GM says Toyota claims they are, then touts a few GM cars in comparison. Hyundai says they are. And now BMW says they are! Who's right?

Also, I think it's interesting that fuel-efficiency is now an attribute, as opposed to HP or 0-to-60 claims.

 

So Toyota took how many years to turn a profit on the prius? if memory serves me right the prius was released in japan in 1997 and it took them until 2002 to make a profit that's 5 years. If the volt turns a profit in 2015 that's 4 years from its release. Not everything happens today. If they are building a system that can be expanded to other platforms and do well (like in a pick up truck or a minivan). Why isn't the HSD in the siennna or the tundra or tacoma?

Toyota is making history and not for a good reason. It issued the largest recall in history! you don't think that will affect peoples mindsets? The 18 yr olds that are buying their first car are going to think toyota's are crap. Right now (not 10 years ago) Ford is reaping the Toyota fiasco with a 35% increase in sales in february As far as the safest car on the road, it's ford, then volvo, and toyota. Nissan, even GM have safe cars.

Alot of green washing has been done on both sides. Except toyota won the last round of green washing. Toyota for years claimed it was the "greenest" car company when it was really honda (at the time). Now it is actually Hyundai is the greenest, but ask anyone walking down the street which car co is the greenest, 9 times out of ten they will say toyota. In 2008 they sold just as many fuel sippin prius' as tundras so isn't that green washing as well? (in concerns with I4 vs v6 malibus?)

They tout the Prius as the greenest car on the planet and everyone assumes that the rest of the line up is as well. While the rest of the line up is in the middle of the pack for FE. Perception is key here. Quality also plays a role which is GM largest down fall. It seems they improved it a lot on certain models, but work needs to be done. Both comapnies are haunted by the past. Gm in a horrible way and toyota in a good way. Everything will catch up eventually and it seems that it's sooner rather than later for toyota sadly.

 

Stop pretending GM doesn't have extensive experience with motors & batteries already.

Back in 1997, it was an entirely different situation. Everything was new back then. Now we've seen GM deliver EV1, BAS, and Two-Mode, along with several generations of fuel-cell prototypes.

It's a sad excuse making it seem like they are starting fresh when you know darn well they aren't.
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it's a sad excuse when Toyota has the EXACT same experience! rav4 EV,countless hybrid tech in different applications, the same hydrogen experience and the best toyota can muster is 12 mile phev that has a top speed of 60mph in ev mode? Where is Toyota's offering that can use no fuel?

comparing experience of a 10+ year old battery tech in an ev to a phev and ErEV is ludicrous on either side. The only info learned from that test that would be relevant is usage patterns (charg frequency trip distance aka the human factor)and the electric motors themselves. the different battery chemistries would invalidate any info learned on that end. charging, heating and energy expenditures will all be different. So yes in a sense both companies will be starting from scratch( on the most crucial component of a phev or erev). it's much easier to transfer what is learned from an ice to another ice than it is to compare NiMH to Li-ion.

 

With Ford & GM abandoning the minivan market entirely, it didn't make sense to bring over ESTIMA to this country. Yes, there is a minivan using HSD already. Delay until the new Sienna debuts makes much more sense.

HIGHLANDER is a 7-passenger vehicle using HSD capable of towing 3,500 pounds. How much larger of a hybrid vehicle is needed in a market grossly over-saturated with trucks already?
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I can see this has already degenerated into a Toyota bashing session...

It all boils down to consumer price.

Toyota works within the confines of keeping the vehicle affordable. GM doesn't set any type of price limitation. That's a huge difference.

Of course, we all know Volt uses gas from time to time. So, I fail to understand the purpose of the final sentence. What exactly is the purpose of Volt? How many consumers will it reach and when?
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