Volt's intrument display panel

Just to throw some numbers out there a tesla motor only weighs about 70lbs and a more powerful inverter will weigh far less than a pound more than the prius's. The phv prius only uses one battery pack at a time, if they were used in parallel there is no reason the packs couldn't provide enough power to drive in ev mode. If the only problem or expense is battery pack, then running the engine in series can provide this extra power. So no, a series hybrid does not need a significantly heavier motor or heavier battery. A more powerful mg2, the ability to use more power from the packs, and a working ev button would be nice improvements to a future phv prius. My guess is that the biggest current constraint on the phv prius's drive train is battery management not lack of motor power.

Your numbers are from the prius and volt when comparing cost and complexity. The phv prius drive train should definitely be cheaper since it is leveraged off of a good volume production car and everything but the battery and charger are in their 4th generation. The volt when they announced their engine choice said in the second generation it will be different.

My choice for a future series phev range extender would be a micro-turbine that reused heat . No catalytic converter, no water cooling, no oil lubrication, light weight and you could use gasoline, french fry grease, or even tequila to power the thing. If money is of no object that future porsche 918 looks great for series/parellel phev.

 

It happens. It took me 2.5 hours to go 10 miles just this week. A tanker carring gas caught on fire on i-77 causeing all traffic to be stopped and deverted. I'm willing to be the leaf or volt would use alot of the battery considering it was in the mid 90's outside. I guess you could turn the ac off and sweat in the 100 degree plus car, and still make it home.

I think the 46 mile range your talking about is hot weather in stop and go city traffic, not a major traffic jam caused by an accident.

I'm not saying anything bad about the leaf, just trying to show a reason the Volt can be usefull.

 

Not in my neighborhood. There are 7 Prius in a 100 resident community. Not one single.

 

you mean you see 2 or more people in all the pri almost all the time?

 

I am not sure what the original post implied .... I thought he meant "single" owner. Now, my community consist of older, retired people, and yes, most often the Prius has two people aboard. That may not be typical across the nation.

 

sorry, i meant, how many people are throwing 2-3 kids in the back and heading to soccer practise as they do in vans/suv's? around here there are only 1-2 people in a car. when i bought my 04, my kids were 24, 21 and 19. and we never used the prius if we were all together. college runs = minivan (thank God that's gone!) after that, it has been the camry. i'm not saying it can't be done, my wife's parents squeezed 6 kids in the back of a 50's rambler seda. but we always had a station wagon. the question is, will it be done?

 

How did families survive before the minivan and SUV! When I grew up it was all Fury's, Thunderbirds and LTD's! Granted, they were whales...

 

Well, I won't comment about 2gen Volt to-do list, because 1gen have not yet been sold. PHV Prius, and 1Gen to 3Gen, are almost under the same layout, minor changes have been made since 1997 deploy.

Micro turbines have yet to prove their efficiency...and regarding no water-cooling, I would say that heat reuse is impossible without an liquid medium-heat-exchanger, and for what purpose?

Taking advantage of your post, let me with my 2 cents of euro:
When running in CS mode, Volt (as any other E-REV) has a buffer zone fed by the ICE work. But think of the moment you end your trip: the battery has a buffer energy that was not coming from grid and actually, you will not charge entirely from plugging, maybe 10% not available any more for filling...

So IMO, E-REV may have much drawbacks, and GM has found it too late to return back to board.

 

Not just that, things like the elaborate dual-display interface were hyped far too long ago.

GM pushed Volt into the niche category by intentionally configuring the interface to stand out from the mainstream... with heavy emphasis on what makes it different.

Toyota did quite the opposite. They provided a LCD, but downplayed it. That interface was primarily just an educational tool with simplistic information about the hybrid system provided. They easily could have offered much more, but chose not to. In fact, that switch away from a LCD for the 2010 emphasizes the downplay. True, you can get more information with the new interface, but it isn't as obvious now.
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Well, John, my sentence was straight to the project E-REV in terms of energy management, which was early discarded by Toyota. [offtopic, I reckon]

The panel itself is just a mere interface, and I think Prius has a very intuitive one. Though too simple for someone, it's a fact that is easy to understand and not a multimedia animated drawing, colorful and entertaining...

Still offtopic..And what about the Charge Sustain issues? Am I close from the truth? Plug-in Prius really can and does deplete its Li-Ion batt, but Volt cannot - both within secure SOC levels.

 

The point is to judge the weight by what was involved in the show car and the gen II suggested car, which is a lighter weight more efficient engine that doesn't use premium gas. GM does not produce such an animal and decided not to buy one from someone that does so that the volt was all gm. The prius from gen 0 to gen 3 greatly improved the drivetrain providing higher power to weight, higher efficiency, and higher reliability. If I were to judge all hybrids from the gen 0 and 1, I would likely conclude that the increased cost and weight made no sense, we should not make a similar mistake on the idea of a serial phev.

First, you are forgetting the retro cool factor, they don't really need to be any better than the early 90s when they put one in a prototype ev1. You can buy an off the shelf car power size microturbine with efficiency of 29%. ETV has a prototype running in a prius body and their drive train and claim 38-44% efficiency.

The benefit of not needing a radiator is lower weight and increased reliability since engine overheating doesn't happen in a turbine. Air and exhaust gasses are both fluids, and can be used in heat-exchangers. The most mild is a recuperator which heats the incoming air, and a heating system that would provide cabin heat. Ofcourse you can add liquids and boost efficiency by putting a steam generating turbine in the system that would boost efficiency and a heat pump to provide better heating and ac.

How are we going to build the bat mobile with out a turbine? You could ofcourse hook up the turbine shaft through a transmission, even a psd to make it a parallel/serial hybrid. Or use it as a jet engine

http://www.etvmotors.com/turbine-charger.htm
Toyota MR2 Jet Turbine

The buffer is used in gasoline cars, hybrids, and any phev. The prius we are driving only uses 40% of usable capacity, the volt 55%, the phv prius is in the 60s. The buffer size is provided for to maintain reliability of the pack, and depends on the battery chemistry. So yes this is a criticism of all cars, not just the volt.

 

Prius battery operates at the optimum state of charge to prolong the battery life. It resulted in 10 years / 150k miles and qualifying AT-PZEV.

The Volt does not qualify for AT-PZEV so what was their reserve SOC for? It has battery liquid cooling resulting in extra coolant maintenance.

 

People forget that the Prius is a Hy-brid on many levels and not just because of the drive train. Auto manufacturers like to limit the scope of a given vehicle, in the hope of selling you another vehicle to fill your needs (real or not).

 

Man, I got ripped off with my prius then, my warranty is only 8 years 100,000 miles the same as the volt and the leaf. Do you think those cars they sell in California and New York have better batteries than they sell here

The reason for 40-80% SOC is the Nimh chemistry. Li chemistries can handle bigger SOC ranges but also have more issues with temperature.

 

That's awesome that owners can check the status of their battery from their iPhone !!!!

SUPERB!

 

Sorry don't see anything hard to read in my Prius display. Never have... 163,000 miles and counting.

One thing is certain though. Prius sales will stomp Volt sales into dust. Sales are the true measure of the public's acceptance of a whole range of attributes including price, dependability, interface, comfort, performance, etc, etc. The public speaks with its wallets and checkbooks.

 

I have a 2001, 2007, and 2010 Prius (shared among four drivers). The 2010 display is definitely harder to read due to smaller font, being a little farther away, and less overall viewing area. No issues with the stuff necessary for driving, but the 2010 trip meters often require me to lean forward to read on bright days. Also important to realize that older driver's eyes just are not as good as youthful eyes, which would have no problem with any of the displays

As for you second paragraph, has that not already occurred?

 

You have the same battery that was engineered to warrant 10 years / 150k miles in the CARB states.

Volt and Leaf battery were probably not designed to last that long since the longest warranty in any state is 8 years /100k miles.

 

Older tend to require extra distance for clarity, which would be an advantage with the placement in Prius.
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I know its the same battery, it was a joke that was supposed to make you think about it. I guess I need more smileys.

Do you think that the volt engine is engineered better then the prius engine, or that mine will fail in 5 years. Of course not. GM and hyundai have better warantees because people think the reliability will be worse, toyota doesn't need to have the expense because of its reputation for quality engines. The civic hybrid warranty on batteries doesn't even seem to be honored although it is as long as the toyota warranty. Li batteries have not been in the field for a long time for manufacturers have to guess on longevity and types of use. It is partially the long warranty and lack of competition that has delayed Toyota from selling the phv prius.

:focus:
Really I don't think that CARB should impact your opinion of what is, or is not a better interface. Having a higher quality better screen is a good thing. That does not mean that the phv-prius interface is not good enough, but it could be made much better. Information wise ford seems better to me than gm.