VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Jeff N, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    not until you get that next chest x-ray.
    .
     
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  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Usually their cars are spending more time at the gas station and repair shop.

    Bob Wilson
     
  3. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    If you buy from the big 3...yes.
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Not in all cases.
    Some GM models had a lean burn mode for less stringent environmental regulated markets. The code was in American cars' ECUs, and some people would turn it on.
     
  5. wxman

    wxman Active Member

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    Yes.

    Source-apportionment studies have shown that diesel particulate matter is a relatively minor contributor to ambient PM2.5 in spite of the rollin' coal and older diesel truck engines that are still on the road.

    Particulates! See also slide 10 from this ORNL presentation in 2003.
     
  6. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    True, but normal users defeat emission controls ONLY when they run into problems. The average car in Europe is 11 years old, at that age many DPFs starts to fail, great majority will not even consider changing it with new one, they will pay the "tuner" €200 and get rid of it. A gasoline engine has much simpler emission system and the 3-way cat is also easier to control at yearly inspection (MOT).
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    You have more diesels in Europe. The US more gasoline. Even during VW's cheating heydays, more hybrids were sold here than diesels. The starting population is going to determine which one will contribute the most to emissions from defeated devices.

    While many defeat the emission controls on old cars because of the cost for a proper repair, some are doing it for performance reasons. Time to time, I see cars with cheap 'chips' that cause excess fuel to be dumped into the cylinder. The soot of the bumper can be as bad as a pre-DPF diesel. More sosphisticated tunes aren't visible. Since most emission inspections here are just plugging into the OBD II port and downloading a report, hiding any changes in what the car is emitting is easy.
     
  8. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    So what if there are more diesels in Europe? That is not the point, the point is that average car is on the road a lot longer than one would anticipate and to run it that long, probably 1/3 of it's life, it's of the specs it was made for.

    This is true for any ICE car, but the more complex the aftertreatment system is the more it will polute in it's end years. There is also the yearly inspection, controlling 3-way cat is a fairly simple job, controlling sot and NOx under load is a completely different matter. All that the inspector can do is visibly inspect the exhaust piping.

    An engine that uses simple and reliable aftertreatment will be the cleanest in it's whole life time and IMO Toyota 1.8 hybrid engine is the nearest to that philosophy.
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The point is that people defeating their emission controls in gasoline cars has a bigger impact in the US than those doing so with diesel diesel cars, even if it is a smaller percentage of owners.

    The reliability of early emission controls for gasoline cars wasn't so great. Controlling a hybrid drive train is more complex than a traditional transmission. Yet here we are. Diesels can be clean, but we have to be vigilant with regulations and enforcement. Incentives to help people repair older diesels, or to get them off the road should be considered.
     
  10. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    No that is not the point.

    All things fail at some point, you can't regulate something with measuring every single old car with PEMS or doing every single car on rollers simulating driving cycle (under load conditions). Again, simple and cleanest engine before exhaust treatment, will be ultimativelly the cleanest in the long run.
     
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I was responding to your comment on people that purposely defeat the controls.
     
  12. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    They purposely defeat for two reasons:
    1. failure
    2. tuning

    The second group is a minority.
     
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Yes, and a large part of which group, diesel or gas, will have the most offender on the road is in how many are on the road total.
     
  14. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    VW diesel fix deemed inadequate in Germany

    Code:
    https://jalopnik.com/cheating-volkswagen-diesels-have-become-a-hot-commodity-1837505697
    Had to put the 2nd link in code tags, otherwise this board's software would "blow up" and include a TON of HTML, CSS, etc.
     
    #2014 cwerdna, Aug 24, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
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  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's no problem, they're going electric :p
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    The hits keep coming on: VW diesel fix deemed inadequate in Germany

    AUGUST 23, 2019

    The Dusseldorf district court found that the update applied to the plaintiff's turbodiesel Tiguan still only allows the emissions control equipment to function properly between 50 and 90 degrees Fahrenheit.

    The court agreed with the plaintiff's claim that, given the temperature window, the car continued to operate illegally, in violation of emissions laws, even after it received the software update, according to a report in the German publication Wallstreet-Online (in German.)
    . . .
    In June, VW introduced a new diesel engine, which it says is now "fully-compliant" with emissions laws, according a post by the company's head of diesel engine development, Sebastian Willmann, pointing to what the company claims as very low nitrogen oxide emissions.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  17. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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