VW Faces $17B Fine for Emissions Scam

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Jeff N, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

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    I personally think that it's CARB that VW/Audi have to worry about the most. If CARB gets the bit in its teeth the Germans could face not only Federal charges but state-by-state criminal charges and then be barred from selling in California, the largest market in the US. Then to pile-on other states often follow the lead of CARB.
     
  2. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    What exactly VW was thinking? It is not like evidence would disappear after the while. They were sitting ducks maybe it took a few years but still...

    I wonder how many gasoline engines out there with similar problems and would fail test in real life conditions.
     
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  3. DeadPhish

    DeadPhish Senior Member

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    Another view that I read from an autoblog. The writer said that he was disappointed in VW/Audi but as an Audi owner if he received a recall notice and he learned that by having the recall done that he's 'lose' some of the fun of driving it then he'd just shred the recall notice. Sorta what I did on the mat recall. That may not be possible in Cali and other specific locations.

    I think the Feds (states) have to assess a penalty per vehicle sold regardless of whether the recall is actually done or not.
     
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  4. Blizzard_Persona

    Blizzard_Persona Senior Member

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    So does that mean only in CARB states?

    Here in PA diesels are exempt from emissions, so this whole recall doesn't really affect an owner or buyer that registers his veh here right? Of course move to a carb state and your SOL.
     
  5. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    Even if you shred the notice patch will be applied next time you go to dealer
     
  6. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    NOx emissions are actually higher with biodiesel than the regular stuff.
     
  7. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    CR is Common Rail. Since it's an EPA mandate, it affects all the states. One member works at a plant and he said VW shut down the TDI assembly for now.
     
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  8. Blizzard_Persona

    Blizzard_Persona Senior Member

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    Oh ok. Thx.

    So in essence the dealer salesman that I spoke with yesterday and said he can sell me the TDI sportwagen no issues was bs'ing.. Go figure. Lol.

    And the TDI section of the plant better get back in high gear if they are gonna be manufacturing a retro fit part for millions of cars!!!
     
    #88 Blizzard_Persona, Sep 20, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2015
  9. godzillaismad

    godzillaismad Member

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    Can anyone please find the YouTube video where a VW TDI was compared against the Prius and at the end of the road test, they said the TDI has much cleaner tailpipe than the Prius?

    Assuming it exists, we are seeing one of the biggest spin doctoring in marketing history. Is there a case for a class action for selling false advert, deliberately misleading potential customers based on what EPA found? I am not just talking about VW owners, but others as well? This could get very messy for someone...
     
  10. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    One poster said he was all set on a deal for a 2015 with the financing, trade-in value, etc. and was getting ready for the trip when he received an e-mail from the dealer saying VWOA has them all on a stop sale until further notice.
     
  11. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    PA is a CARB state, just not 150k mile warranty extended CARB
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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  13. LDB

    LDB Member

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    Yes, that's probably the best plan. The U.S. economy doesn't need the many hundreds of dealers, assembly plants, distribution networks for cars and parts and all the many many many thousands of associated jobs.
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Cars already have dyno mode for emission and other testing. It is to turn off the the TC, VSC, etc that may prevent the car from running on a dyno. This is what you put the Prius in withe the pedal dance to turn off the TC. The ECM doesn't need to detect anything to use an emission test only profile.

    Onboard emission test equipment has gotten really cheap in the past couple of years.

    We are CARB, and we have counties that are exempt from emission testing gasoline cars. A Fuelly poster in one such county deleted the EGR valve on his Civic VX.:mad:

    Doesn't matter if it was a review video, and the TDI isn't cleaner than the Prius in NOx in the emission bin it is in. It is cleaner in particulates, and that isn't what VW cheated on.
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Texas patent juries do it all the time.
    This is an important question. It is bad enough to detect the 'test protocol' and use separate control laws. Will always using the EPA test, control laws work outside of the EPA test protocol?

    We don't have a technical description of what changed: injector timing, exhaust gas recirculation valve setting, turbo waste-gate setting, coolant temperature vs. control map . . .

    Recall compliance is a problem and this may lead to having to motivate owners. Unlike a safety recall, running an emissions spoof can lead to fines on the owner until fixed.

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. godzillaismad

    godzillaismad Member

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    Thank you for the clarification. Somehow I don't think their diesel vehicles are clearer in particulates pollution either. I frequently observed any modern VW diesel powered cars shoot out a ton of black soot under acceleration. Pardon my ignorance with soot vs. particulate matters. Assuming the DPF is doing its job, aren't we suppose to see those black soot eliminated under all driving condition?
     
  17. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    Continue Reading “Volkswagen Group orders external investigation of emissions testing violations, pledges full support to EPA and ARB”
     
  18. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    That was my initial impression but further reading at the theicct.org shows that the West Virginia university folks that did the initial research that started this investigation tested 3 cars -- a Jetta using LNT, a Passat using SCR (urea), and a BMW using SCR. Even though the Passat used SCR it performed poorly while the BMW did well.

    Here is a graphic from a different recent ICCT study on diesel vehicles and their NOx emissions (ignore the "CO2" typo in the fine print -- it should have said NOx).

    image.png
     
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  19. energyandair

    energyandair Active Member

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    Filters are sometimes neglected or removed.
    I doubt that the testing covers all driving conditions, and the number and size of particles the filter has to deal with maybe very different under some momentary driving conditions.
    I've noticed what you have but I suspect that I'm not good at estimating the age of Golfs or Jettas that appear to be in good shape.
     
  20. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    The discussion was about whistleblower legal effectiveness, not about patent or civil or class action cases.
     
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