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Want to see how the cost of electricity vs. the cost of gas by state?

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by Zythryn, Mar 2, 2016.

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  1. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    eGallon | Department of Energy

    A nice breakdown of how much charging an EV costs vs a gallon of gas.
    It still averages over different types of EVs. But the cost by state is a lot better than a national average.
     
    #1 Zythryn, Mar 2, 2016
  2. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Hmmmm.....
    So if a $25,000 Prius burns about 4000 gallons of gas through its life-cycle, you'll need about a $2 to 3 delta to get to a theoretical Bolt or Tesla.

    Interesting data...
     
    #2 ETC(SS), Mar 2, 2016
  3. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

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    Very misleading calculator. I can only speak of CA where it has a average gasoline costs of $2.29 and an egallon at $1.58. I can't find how they calculate egallon. But if I look at it at face value, it is telling me I will save $0.71 per gallon.

    Fueleconomy.gov says it costs $1 to go 25 miles in a Leaf and $0.88 on a Prius ECO.

    Quite a discrepancy in the other direction. My own costs for my PiP at $0.20 a kWh says it costs me $1.25 to go 25 miles. Or in other words my egallon equivalent is $2.50. Again, quite a discrepancy in the other direction and matching EPA. It costs me more to use electricity.
     
    #3 mmmodem, Mar 2, 2016
  4. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    If cost is your only guide, you should be buying a used Geo Metro:)





    That is because you are trying to apply a generalized tool to your specific case.
    The distance the gallon of gas takes you is for the average car, not your car.
    I don't know how up to date the prices are either. It looks like the gas prices are about a week out of date?

    As a generalized tool, I find it better than the national averaged data, but of course will vary depending upon each individual's specifics.
     
    #4 Zythryn, Mar 2, 2016
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  5. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    That's true (I had a 94 XFI) but if you're going to examine the cost of the fuel, then it's only fair to examine the cost of the vehicle.

    Othewise, just stick with the tree hugging or the oil war angle.... ;)
     
    #5 ETC(SS), Mar 2, 2016
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  6. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Keep in mind this is somewhat Apples and Oranges.
    The EV's tend to be smaller, and are being compared to SUV's etc with presumably 25 miles per gallon.
    This chart is presumably not comparing to say Prius which is still more roomy than say a Volt.
     
    #6 wjtracy, Mar 2, 2016
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  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    How do you figure the egallon is averaged over different EVs? With the little bit of info in the footnote, I figure they are just figuring the cost of electric to equal the kWh in a gallon of gas.

    Or they aren't, after doing some basic math.

    Without doing more math, my guess is that they are comparing the 25mpg new vehicle average to what it would cost an average EV to go 25 miles.
    Will point out the EPA passenger volume difference between the gen4 and gen2 Volt is only a cubic foot now.
    The average EV does include a full size car and standard SUV, but yes, there are more FSP ICE than FSP EV.
     
    #7 Trollbait, Mar 2, 2016
  8. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

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    Ah, I see. Egallon is calculated in some way from the average car that gets what 25 mpg? Wish it said so in the tiny print like fueleconomy.gov. Still would like to know how they arrived at that number. But I'll buy that BEV is more cost efficient per egallon.

    $2.29 sounds about right for average CA. We're on the high side of the bell curve.
     
    #8 mmmodem, Mar 2, 2016
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    well, massachusetts is incorrect for where i live. gas is $1.75/gallon, and electricity is 24 cents a kWh.
    if i get 15 miles ev for $.84, that equals 15 miles gas for $.45, and the website shows electricity slightly lower cost than gasoline.
     
    #9 bisco, Mar 2, 2016
  10. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Once again, it isn't supposed to show you your costs where you live.
    It is incorrect for my costs as well, as my cost for electricity is much less than the state average, and gas is higher than shown.
    It shows the average by state, which in my mind is better than average of the entire country.
    If you click on the "data and methodology" tiny print link it gives lots of details. Here is the link, eGallon Methodology | Department of Energy

    I was also incorrect, the gas mileage is not that of the average car. It is that of the average comparable car. They average the mpg of sub-compacts, compacts, medium and large cars. They exclude SUVs as there are no SUV EVs (or at least, at the time of the calculations). The mpg number they use is 27.9mpg.

    You also need to compare the cars. Do both have navigation, power seats, drive assist technology, etc.

    As I noted above, after reading the methodology, they exclude SUVs. So they are comparing similar sized cars to each other.
    There are no specific car omparisons, this is all averages, but it is averages of similarly sized vehicles.
     
    #10 Zythryn, Mar 2, 2016
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  11. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    OK no SUV's but still as per bisco's numbers assumes you do not get a Prius.

    If my calcs are correct, natural gas is only 23 cents per equiv. gallon (GGE) wholesale cost to the utility so it should be possible make electric say 50 cents/GGe not including taxes and profit margins.
     
    #11 wjtracy, Mar 2, 2016
  12. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Wholesale electric costs are 2-3 cents/kWh. To go 28 miles, takes about 9kWh, so 18-27 cents wholesale.
    My off peak costs for that is about 51 cents.

    Of course, if you have one of the more efficient EVs, your costs are even lower. The average they use I believe is about 101mpge. The i3 gets 118mpge. An 17% improvement. However, this is about averages at the state level.
     
    #12 Zythryn, Mar 2, 2016
  13. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    #13 Sergiospl, Mar 2, 2016
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The LS is more comparable to the Model S than the ES
    No word of hybrids being excluded from the their average MPG, but it will also include the sport and larger ICE trims of the cars. 'Adjusted' is also used in the PDF, so the average might be weighted by model sales.

    The site uses $0.1269 for kWh and $1.996 gallon gasoline(weekly average for all grades).
     
    #14 Trollbait, Mar 2, 2016
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  15. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Sigh...
    No, an eGallon is an abstraction. It is an average. To say the same average equates to the cost of two specific vehicles, which don't have the same efficiency is inaccurate.

    The Tesla, in your example is about 25% less efficient than the Leaf. The eGallon is based on the average efficiency of the top 5 selling EVs. So it would be a bit cheaper for the Leaf and more expensive for the Tesla.
     
    #15 Zythryn, Mar 2, 2016
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  16. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

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    I admire your persistence. :sneaky:
     
    #16 mmmodem, Mar 2, 2016
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  17. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    According to Zythryn, DoE are apparently showing only cars not including light duty trucks which is included the 25 MPG chart. The 25 MPG UMich average is for recent selling light duty vehicles,so presumably if you say not new, but on-the-road average light duty vehicles on the road it is <25 MPG, and then cars could be 27-28 average MPG on the road today.
     
    #17 wjtracy, Mar 2, 2016
  18. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    Also, cost to drive e gallon in a Leaf at 30kwh/100 mi, will be different than in a Mercedes B class at 40Kwh/100 mi.
     
    #18 Sergiospl, Mar 2, 2016
  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Right, it is just an average to give a picture of relative costs.
    For a buyer, they should do the calculations for the models they are interested in.
     
    #19 Trollbait, Mar 2, 2016
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  20. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    #20 Sergiospl, Mar 2, 2016
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