warming up the car vs. engine block heater

You also make the mistake of leaving out the cost of the component, ~$2.50/month although, if your numbers are correct, this component still works out as a good investment in your situation.

 

Dave, Frank and I are lucky with all the hydro power. It helps our air quality but is not with out cost. Damming the streams is not with out its ecological cost. It is all a balance. We do well for now in the PNW but we will pay more in the future. I would guess that oil will be more expensive than our electricity but I am not sure.

 

if the numbers didn't work out I wouldn't waste my time or money for that matter. As I bought my car at dealer cost minus the Toyota $500 dealer incentive to get the car out of stock and the dealer already installed the block heater it was free to me. All I have invested is my time and the cost of my digital timer and the extension cord and a replacement end as I drilled a cord sized hole in my tool shed to get the wire into the house. Third winter of using it and I won't quit till the cost of gas drops below the cost difference in electricity. I quit using it last year at the end of march as the OAT was high enough to make it not worth the effort. Mind you gas is more expensive this year than last so will crunch some numbers in my spread sheet and see if a reduction in "on time" will still be cost effective.

 

Your block heater wasn't "free", it was "included" in the price.
I didn't even think to factor in the price of your other dedicated equipment purchases (extension cord, timer, etc.).
Glad it's working out for you.

 

what part of dealer cost don't you understand. I paid almost $4,000 below MSRP for the car. And Toyota gave the dealer $500 to move it out of inventory.

 

You got nothing for "free".
You paid an agreed price and, for your money, you got a car that included an EBH.
The fact that you paid under "dealer cost" is irrelevant.

You can call that "free" if you like.
I'm not interested in arguing about it.

 

for $4000 under cost, i would gladly pay for the block heater

 

Block heaters are free. I paid far more for the copper to wire my power outlets and the time switch.

Cost is a net savings. Saves me the cost of building another garage for the car.

And I am sure the tiny block heater cost is covered in 3 to 5 years. I keep my cars over 10 and the numbers I posted were worst case in still mild temps. When we get really down to 0 deg here I am sure the savings will be greater.

 

I would like to argue that the savings are greater at moderate temps. I get into full hybrid mode in .2 of a mile, before I get on the main road on most days. Yes we had a cold snap and it took almost .5 miles. The milage varies. In colder climates (Alaska) you need a block heater. I can get my car up to temp in 1.5 hours now that am temps are near 50 ( 47-48-49). I paid 58 Canadian for the block heater. With the block heater and radiator blocker I got 58 on the last tank. This is winter with 10% Ethanol and who knows what else. I get a least a 5mpg boost with summer gas. I think I will pay this off.

 

Where are these "free" block heaters? :blink: I just spent $47(and a handful of cuts)on mine!

 

Henry.. you got 58 mpg on the last tank???

wow... that is 7 mpg better than me is same area, same driving conditions...that is awesome!!

 

Well short fill and it has been warmer. And I have this great course to work and back plus my wife made me fill up early because we were going to the airport. I am not claiming that until I do the next fill up, that will probably be 48. What goes up must come down. I am a three tank average person!

 

thanks everyone this was a great concise thread, i may consider a block heater, but i still have the question of outside temperature in the equation or is it all about the engine block itself? I park in our garage which has a nice ambient temperature from the old gravity furnace heater.

b

 

the ICE temp is the critical part of the mileage equation. If you have a block heater and put it on a timer you will start out with the whole ICE at approx 47C instead of OAT coldsoak temp. The thermos dump will bring it up a few more degrees. The amout of gas required to get the ICE to 47C is considerably more expensive than 2 1/2 hours of electricity to bring it to 47C. Full hybrid operation (S4) starts anywhere from 60C to 65C depending on battery temp slightly higher in really cold (for you) weather. I'm starting to think I might just run my block heater year round. It has the ICE at 70C (S4 for the Classic) approx. 1 mile sooner than with out and 2 1/2 hours costs about 5 cents. Your cost will vary with your electricity rate. Our gasoline costs about $3.90 a US gallon.

 

OK, so 47C thats 114F, so I assume that there's no way sitting in a unheated garage will help, thus, even in my situation a block heater is justified.

Great, I'll talk to the dealer tomorrow when I finally do our 30K check up, about 200 miles over LOL.

b

 

I am still using my block heater during the transition from "winter" to "summer". Please remember that those of us in the PNW are in a costal climate. The Japanese current swings around past our coast. It is cooled in the north lands but like England and Ireland with the gulf stream, it moderates our climate. Warmer winters and cooler summers. I have dialed down to 1.5 hours in the morning, but still have the radiator blocker on and partially open. I think it comes off next weekend. In mild climates the engine block heater will carry you past Spring in more severe climates into early summer!

 

I stopped using my bock heater for the summer, but with the recent cooler weather I'm thinking of going back to it. I find it helpful whenever morning temps are under about 50 degrees F.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tomdeimos @ May 14 2006, 09:29 PM) [snapback]255476[/snapback]</div>

thanks that is most helpful i was wondering if it was possible to have a general rule of thumb, it is not unusual for us to have a summer of mornings below 50F then in Sept. Oct. we get about 70-80F, like today out of the blue, 77F! I would say on our little SF mountain we get at least six months of below 50 in the morning. That's when I put a coat on, LOL!

Do you recall if there was ever a thread about the different types of block heaters? I found this website very helpful it highlighted six different types with degree of difficulty installing and best benefit. I'll ask SF Toyota about what they install.

http://www.metrompg.com/posts/block-heater.htm

b

 

toyota has their own block heater for the Prius and the Matrix. It fit's inside the block but you don't have to drain the coolant to install it. Grease it up and slip it in the hole in the block and hook up the cord. Easy compared to most block heater installations. Your dealer in California won't have ever heard of a block heater for a Prius! Most Canadian Toyota dealers have them or can get them.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frank Hudon @ May 14 2006, 10:21 PM) [snapback]255496[/snapback]</div>

heads up on Toyota Depot and block heaters - $57.80

http://www.toyotadepot.com/product_info.ph...products_id/144

since Toyota Depot is gone , and my dealership can't find engine block heaters on their parts computer,
anyone have an alternate source? (I looked on E-bay already---Zip, nada, zilch )