Was Little Ice Age caused by mass extermination of Native Americans?

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by fuzzy1, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Perhaps the little ice age was caused by reading this thread?

    My problem with the claim is it was not a global phenomenon ... or that is my understanding. Asia had large, literate populations that did not record the same. It appears to be a regional claim.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Both Little Ice Age and previous medieval warm period (or climate anomaly) had some features at global scale. However they were poorly synchronized and sometimes with contrasting T patterns across regions. For me they stand as examples of weird extremes that are possible when [CO2] is sufficiently low.

    Crank that [CO2] up a bit, and climate armies march in much more unified ways. Except of course the polar jet stream, which does whatever it wants.
     
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  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    End of Ming Dynasty :whistle:
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    India.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Before LIA there was Late Antique little ice age, 536-660 AD. Similar sort of deal; Not enough [CO2] :D some volcanoes, geopolitical oopsies.

    PAGES2K did a nice article on that for Nature Geoscience that just now I cannot find an easy way to loot.
    (another edit) Well, Büntgen et al. 2016 just fell off the truck :) They do make a case that LALIA was a pretty good whack. PAGES2k are an impressive gang.

    But see:

    1,500-Year-Old “Little Ice Age” May Have Altered the Course of History - HISTORY
     
    #25 tochatihu, Feb 2, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    India eh? Just how many Great Empires' interactions with climate do you think I can fit in my small head?
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Perhaps more religious observation?

    "Ohm" - 'Om ([​IMG]listen (help·info), IAST: Oṃ, Devanagari: ॐ, Tamil: ௐ, Kannada: ಓಂ), also written as 'Aum', is the most sacred syllable, symbol, or mantra in Hinduism,[1] that signifies the essence of the ultimate reality, consciousness or Atman.[2][3][4] The Om sound is the primordial sound, and is called the Shabda-Brahman (Brahman as sound).[5] It is a syllable that is chanted either independently or before a mantra.[6][7] It is also found in Jainism, Buddhism, and Sikhism.' (Source: Om - Wikipedia)​

    <grins>

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Has it ever stuck you as odd that the essence of consciousness is identified with (electrical) resistance?

    I got a million of 'em.
     
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  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    It is what separates us from a gang of lethargic bacteria. Although I have questions about some bacteria tribes.

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Bacteria may only get around by having spinning propellers on their heads, but they can do biochemical reactions that humans can only dream about. Plus, they swap DNA in much more creative ways :rolleyes: I'd not call them lethargic.

    As ancestors though, pretty darn freaky.

    ==
    If humans ever figure out how to scoot around stars >10,000 times faster than with modern fireworks, I imagine they will find things like bacteria, but freakier still. They'll have opportunity to perceive that biology as wild as it has developed on one planet is just a small slice of the freaky pie. That would be a thing.

    Rarely, they may encounter something like a clam. Ought to be on our planetary flag! Multi-cellular organisms dedicated to converting others' poops into self. Ultimate upcyclers. Shell Oil choose the right icon, for all the wrong reasons.

    Very
    rarely, they may encounter a civilization. And then those future humans will become zoo attractions. Not snuffed out as we've done here on earth to others, following our 'wiring' that says what we can take exceeds what we can learn. That wiring looks backwards. My optimism proclaims that at least some civilizations instead learn to look forward.

    This is why I wonder if consciousness is resistance. Resisting being only a more efficient predator.
     
  11. George W

    George W Member

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    Since I read the report in 2002, I no longer can give you the specific reference that measured the 31% O2 levels in ancient Amber. The sample was supposedly buried at the same level of fossilized dinosaur remains.
     
  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    That would imply an oxygen concentration of 60%, but the charts I'm finding all top out in the 30-35% range.
    The charts I'm seeing show that highest oxygen level predating the large reptiles / dinosaurs. Instead, it was back in the era of giant insects.

    At first glance, oxygen levels during the dinosaur era seem to be in dispute. I see one that puts it high, but others putting it lower than now.
     
  13. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Possibly here?: Bubbles in Amber: Dinosaurs Breathed an Oxygen-Rich Atmosphere

    But its timescale conflicts with many other items I'm seeing.
     
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Give me a moment to see if Landis' articles are accessible...
     
  15. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I have not found immediate access to Landis' amber [O2] research. but I may have something to report later. It would be 'unsettling' to consensus in late-dino times, which makes it interesting. We cannot ignore this because RA Berner (paleoatmosphere guru) is on author list.
     
  16. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I have been able read so far one of Landis' articles on very high Cretaceous [O2]. As often, it stands against 'consensus' derived in other ways. It might (but does not) describe how that high [O2] came quickly down to lower.

    We are sure that dinos were dominant before 65 mya and after, they were absent. We are nearly sure than an impact event did them in. All that could happen without an [O2] excursion that Landis' team may have found, and has not popped up in other evidence, and that Landis (so far as I have yet read) has not linked to other biochemical proxies.

    We know that dinos 'took the exit' and that they had several strong reasons for doing so. I cannot report at present that a large [O2] excursion contributed to their exit.
     
  17. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    Of course it was the Catholic church that stopped the slaughter in Mexico, in the 1500's after what was either the Corn Goddess or the Virgin Mary (Opinions vary) showed up at Tepeyac and said "Yo, go pray with these new guys". (Loose translation)
     
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