Wasn't the USA the leader of science at one time?

Daron, I did forget to highlight the word guesses - but I certainly would have made a point to remember if I'd known I was debating against someone comepletely ignorant of the scientific method.

For the record, I have no problem with "telling people that there is a theory of evolution, and there are people who believe there is a creator" - any number of philosphy, history, religion, or similar courses (even in public school) would have good reason to discuss this topic. In a science classroom, though, there is no reason to bring up any of the many creation myths of the varying religions in the world.

If you really think evolution is false, then the scientific method is your friend. Use SCIENCE to rebut evolution, and you can bring it into the science classroom. Use religion, and you'll only have the support of the ignorant.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Aug 12 2006, 08:09 AM) [snapback]302060[/snapback]</div>

1. leave it to daronspicher to bring science vs. religion into the argument.

2. you wanted educated folks... you see we're all coming out of the woodwork. i have a bsc in biochemistry and molecular biology (with extensive training in human genetics), a msc in pharmacology and am about 2.5 years from a phd in molecular/neuro pharmacology.

3. in your arguments (and i am lax in using the word "argument" here...) to date in this thread, you use the standard toolkit that religious folks use... the duality of the word "theory" (as in scientific use vs general public use) and pointing out the word "guesses", you have to have more faith in science (where there is real data) to believe in evolution than faith in god (where there is no data) to believe in creation... all arguments we've all seen before and have rolled our eyes at in the past.

how about something original here? really. it's boring to hear the same old stuff from people like you.

i thought this thread just MIGHT not run off to science-vs-religion world... guess not.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Aug 11 2006, 09:07 PM) [snapback]301841[/snapback]</div>

Since when does one branch of science mean that all science is the equivilent of that branch?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Aug 12 2006, 08:09 AM) [snapback]302060[/snapback]</div>

I can't even read your ignorant post after your use of the word Theory. Do you know gravity is just a "theory"? When used this way in science it means something completly different when you have a "theory" of what movie Mel Gibson is going to make next.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Aug 12 2006, 02:17 PM) [snapback]302178[/snapback]</div>

man, that's such a depressing thought...

especially considering the hard work and running around and messing with potentially hazardous and tightly regulated chemicals and the frustration and banging of my head against my desk and wanting to scream and all that i go through on a daily basis... and millions of others who have done the same over the ages to achieve the state of knowledge we now enjoy.

*sigh* if only it was a game where we sat comfortably and philosophized.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Aug 12 2006, 09:23 AM) [snapback]302135[/snapback]</div>

What are his credentials to have an opinion worth to notice? Don't be suckered into giving your own, nor into a pointless pissing contest over it. Does he publish?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Aug 12 2006, 01:56 AM) [snapback]302034[/snapback]</div>

Where did the apes come from?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 12 2006, 06:13 PM) [snapback]302265[/snapback]</div>

We didn't decend from apes. Both apes and humans decended from a common ancestor. Each line branched off and develped on their own.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Aug 12 2006, 06:55 AM) [snapback]302093[/snapback]</div>

Don't forget the fraud, outright lies and suppression of evidence ect.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AlphaTeam @ Aug 12 2006, 05:21 PM) [snapback]302268[/snapback]</div>

Actually humans ARE apes. Homo Sapiens is an african great ape along with chimpanzees, gorillas and bonobos.

The correct version for wildkow's question would be:

Where did the common ancestor of the great ape group come from?

This is the latest ape (hominoid) taxonomy based on DNA homology.



So next time you see a chimp or a gorilla please treat him/her like the brother or sister she is..

Cheers!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AlphaTeam @ Aug 12 2006, 03:21 PM) [snapback]302268[/snapback]</div>

Where did the common ancestor come from?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Aug 12 2006, 03:25 PM) [snapback]302272[/snapback]</div>

What proof do you have of this theory or is it just your faith that evolution is fact?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 12 2006, 05:35 PM) [snapback]302280[/snapback]</div>

#1 - There is an unbroken line of millions of common ancestors from the beginning of life. There was an ancestor to everything. See #2.

#2 - The proof as I mentioned is DNA homology. This is the beauty of it. You can sequence DNA with certainty and compare the sequences between two species. The more related they are the more similar their DNA is. Our DNA is 98% homologous to bonobos and slightly less to chimpanzees, then slightly more different to gorillas...etc.. all the way to bacteria and viruses where amazingly some similarities still exist.

This is not a theory, its observable fact.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 12 2006, 06:35 PM) [snapback]302280[/snapback]</div>

he answered your question before you even asked it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Aug 12 2006, 06:25 PM) [snapback]302272[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 12 2006, 05:35 PM) [snapback]302280[/snapback]</div>

Fish.

Evolution is not a fact, it's a theory, and a great deal of evidence exists in fossils and in the study of genetics.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 12 2006, 06:23 PM) [snapback]302270[/snapback]</div>

oh, yeah, we didn't mention ID yet did we? :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Aug 12 2006, 05:53 PM) [snapback]302293[/snapback]</div>

There is a missed subtlety here. That evolution occurred and gave rise to the earth's biological diversity IS a fact. Undisputed. What is a theory, is its mechanism.

For example, gravity, which has been discussed before, is both a law and a theory. There is Newton's law of gravity which describes the attraction between bodies, and the theory of gravity which attempts to describe its mechanism.

Also note how Einstein showed Newton's law was incomplete. Law's are named half due to historical reverie, rather than by a demonstration of certainty, and are certainly modified as time passes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 12 2006, 05:35 PM) [snapback]302280[/snapback]</div>

Ultimately, something in the Ocean. A bacteria, virus, protozoa or something set it off. It was an extremely long process. Much longer than 7 days.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 12 2006, 05:35 PM) [snapback]302280[/snapback]</div>

If you're going to debate science, you'll have to use the same process science does.

Prove it's false. Try to use something other than the bible to do it.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Aug 12 2006, 05:53 PM) [snapback]302294[/snapback]</div>

"Intelligent Design"...taking the intelligent out of science.

If Intelligent Design is going to be taught as a 'science' then we'll have to add:

Phrenology

Astrology

Alchemy

Cryptozoology

Graphology

Numerology

And let's throw in Flat Earth Society as well. They have a website. That makes it true and science...right? And doesn't the bible say the 'four corners of the earth'? How can you have corners if the earth isn't flat? AND square.

How do we even know the earth is round? The only real proof we have is photos from space and those could have been doctored, forged, fake. We don't even know if people walked on the Moon. There is no proof. It could all be a huge conspiracy by the government. A coverup for fiscal irresponsibility.

Prove the earth is round. Prove the man walked on the moon.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Aug 12 2006, 03:53 PM) [snapback]302293[/snapback]</div>

Thank you that's what I was looking for and from fish the next step down was what? Step by step we go back down the evoluntary tree to what? Rocks. That's the evoluntary theory our great ancestors were rocks! :lol:

BTW there is not a great deal of evidence in the fossil record in fact there is none that supports evolution. Look it up don't just take someone's word, the scientist themselves admit it.

Wildkow

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Aug 12 2006, 03:53 PM) [snapback]302294[/snapback]</div>

ID is not my theory and I don't adhere to it either.

Wildkow

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Aug 12 2006, 04:11 PM) [snapback]302303[/snapback]</div>

Then how do you account for the alleged Cambrian Explosion of Life 500+ million years ago when complex life completely formed was found?

Wildkow

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 12 2006, 09:30 PM) [snapback]302382[/snapback]</div>

Then what is? 6 days and a day off? Please enlighten us to how life and humans came to be and the proof that supports it?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Aug 12 2006, 04:26 PM) [snapback]302306[/snapback]</div>

I am using science and some of it is from the very people that support evolution.

Why not quote the Bible. The Bible revealed some of the secrets of the natural world long before science ever did. http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml


Wildkow

p.s. BTW where did the bacteria, virus, protozoa or the something that set it off come from? ROCKS and ya'll that stubbornly insist that evolution is a fact are as dense as said rocks. :lol:

Wildkow