Wasn't the USA the leader of science at one time?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(vtie @ Aug 13 2006, 03:06 AM) [snapback]302489[/snapback]</div>

If so then show me the evidence.

I'll wait right here.

Wildkow

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 14 2006, 01:59 PM) [snapback]303132[/snapback]</div>

Ask and you shall receive:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html

 

I've been following this post for awhile now, I find it interesting how it began on the subject of the US worldwide standing in the sciences and has evolved into a discussion on evolution. But to keep on the topic as it has evolved...

I find it interesting how some in the religious community seem to take evolution as some kind of assult on the power of god, yet Darwin had no such intentions. Consider the following quote...

I tend to agree with Mr Darwin...

Vtie gave an exellent example of how certain bacteria has evolved in a very short period of time to become resistant to many antibiotics. For me, having grown up on a farm, I've seen how people can directly cause an evolution in even higher order beings. Here is an example. Farmer Brown has his dairy heard, some of his cows produce a great deal of milk, others, not so much. Every year farmer Brown need to evaluate his heard, the cows that do not produce well will be culled out, ie they become your bologna sandwich. the good producers on the other hand are kept in the heard and rebred from a sire known for producing offspring with better milk production. The result, good milk producing cows have more offspring than poorly producing cows. In the length of time we have domesticated cattle, the average dairy cow of today produces much more milk than one of 100 or even 50 years ago. This is not hybridization by the way, since a hybrid will not reproduce true. This by the way is not limited to cattle but is in nearly every domesticated animal we have, why can wild turkeys fly but domesticated not? Same thing for chickens, and I could go on and on.

 

I'm surprised Galileo hasn't been brought up by now. Y'all do believe the Earth revolves around the Sun, don't you? (Dispite what is said in the Bible.)

 

Back to science in America --

The backbone of science in the US has been immigration, not local product.

Monetary rewards
Religious and cultural freedoms
Government subsidy
Open admission University post-grad programs

helped, along the way by European decay in the forms of fascism, anti-semitism, and pan European wars. Anybody care to count how many of the total US nobel laureates are Jews displaced from Europe during the 20th century ?

* Chemistry (28 prize winners, 19% of world total, 27% of US total)
* Economics (22 prize winners, 39% of world total, 53% of US total)
* Literature (13 prize winners, 13% of world total, 27% of US total)
* Physiology or Medicine (52 prize winners, 28% of world total, 42% of US total)
* Peace (9 prize winners, 10% of world total, 11% of US total)3
* Physics (47 prize winners, 27% of world total, 38% of US total)

America today is science suppresed at the government level, dogma screamed at every corner, and economic might shifting to asia while Europe is going through a rebirth. Add to that our local version of national fascism, and it should come as little surprise that science and technology leadership in the US is only a memory.

If the US had any sense, they would offer an automatic green card to every single foreigner who completes a PhD in science here.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 13 2006, 06:01 AM) [snapback]302422[/snapback]</div>

And you quote Fred Hoyle? Be careful, your'e on thin ice! Towards the end of his life, the man has come up with more insane theories than you can imagine. He was seriously convinced that the yearly influenza came from outer space, because the Earth was passing through some influenza-rich cloud. Nobody who knows Hoyle's later work takes it seriously. Trust me, you in particular don't want to take everything the man wrote seriously.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 14 2006, 08:59 PM) [snapback]303132[/snapback]</div>

Yeah right. By know I know your "debating" technique. Stubbornly keep asking for "evidence", totally ignoring what the other side writes. If you want evidence, go to your closest natural history museum where they have dinosaur bones. Where do you think those bones come from? Do you think God put them in the ground for our amusement?

So, let me give you a challenge: give me an acceptable explanation for
1) Dinosaur bones
2) The adaptation of bacterial strains to antibiotics
3) Mitochondrial ribosomal RNA

If you are finished with your homework, just tell me and I will give you some more. Just one more hint: Google is your friend here.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Aug 15 2006, 07:35 AM) [snapback]303383[/snapback]</div>

An amazing observation indeed, that is on mind for many years already. And it's not limited to science: you can come to the same conclusion about top musical performers and many other cultural aspects. Many Jews seem to be extremely talented people.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Aug 14 2006, 07:46 PM) [snapback]303321[/snapback]</div>

Dragonfly tell what it says in the Bible please. <_<

Wildkow

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 15 2006, 11:21 AM) [snapback]303548[/snapback]</div>

Okay.

Psalms 93:1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Psalm 104:5 He laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be moved forever.

Ecclesiastes 1:5 The sun also rises, and the sun goes down, and hurries to its place where it rises.

So which is it Wildkow, does the Sun revolve around the Earth, or does the Earth revolve around the Sun? Inquring minds want to know!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Aug 15 2006, 09:33 AM) [snapback]303553[/snapback]</div>

None of those indicate that the earth is the center of the universe or that all other things revolved around it.

Here. . .

The Bible described the shape of the earth centuries before people thought that the earth was spherical.

Isaiah 40:22
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
The word translated “circle†here is the Hebrew word chuwg which is also translated “circuit,†or “compass†(depending on the context). That is, it indicates something spherical, rounded, or arched—not something that is flat or square.

The book of Isaiah was written sometime between 740 and 680 BC. This is at least 300 years before Aristotle suggested that the earth might be a sphere in this book On the Heavens.

This brings up an important historical note related to this topic. Many people are aware of the conflict between Galileo and the Roman Catholic Pope, Paul V. After publishing A Dialogue on the Two Principal Systems of the World, Galileo was summoned to Rome, where he was forced to renounce his findings. (At that time, “theologians†of the Roman Catholic Church maintained that the Earth was the center of the universe, and to assert otherwise was deemed heretical.)

We could not find any place in the Bible that claims that the Earth is flat, or that it is the center of the universe. History shows that this conflict, which took place at the time of the Inquisition, was part of a power struggle. As a result, scientific and biblical knowledge became casualties—an effect we still feel to this day.
Here. . . http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

Do a search on Science and the Bible.

Wildkow

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tleonhar @ Aug 14 2006, 07:35 PM) [snapback]303314[/snapback]</div>

You know there are two different types of evolution don't you. The type you speak of here is not the same as the type that involves most conversations about evolution, that is the change of one species into another. Which is not proven and there is no evidence in the fossil record of this, only speculation.

Wildkow

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 15 2006, 11:50 AM) [snapback]303556[/snapback]</div>

You know what's interesting about your debating style?
I asked you about whether you thought the Earth revolved around the Sun, or the other way around, and you provided me examples from the Bible about whether or not it was round, which has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Then you point me to yet another blog in an attempt to answer the question.

Well, I don't want to ask the blog, because the blog can't talk back. I want to ask you. What do you think? I showed you some examples in the Bible that indicate that the Earth is still, and the Sun revolves around it. Can you tell me why you think these examples don't say that?

Yep, I totally agree with your blogger's sentiments here.

 

"Psalm 104:5 He laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be moved forever."

And yet it moves!

(I've always wanted to play Galileo, )

There is a small museum in Italy that holds one of Galileo's fingers.



I've always fancied that its Galileo's middle finger perpetually raised at the church!

Cheers!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 15 2006, 06:50 PM) [snapback]303556[/snapback]</div>

Thanks for this link! It really made my evening. It's been a while that I have read such hilarious stuff. My favorite was the part where they are actively trying to defend that the Earth is only 10.000 years old. The curves they have to bend themselves in are priceless. Too bad they forgot to address the biggest issues, such as radioactive decay.

Thanks again for a belly laughter

 

nope, it's clear there cannot be a discussion of the state of science in america without the evolution debate coming up.

i wonder if that's all that registers when the word science comes up, or what? what causes this phenomenon?

i think this very thread demonstrates how the diversity of science is not taught here anymore.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Alric @ Aug 15 2006, 03:40 PM) [snapback]303673[/snapback]</div>

Remember how a lot of companies give you a "lifetime guarantee"? Turns out, in court, that that really only means 7 years from a legal standpoint. Maybe forever in the bible means 10,000 years eh? In which case it's now movable?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Aug 14 2006, 09:46 PM) [snapback]303321[/snapback]</div>

Ah, Galileo. The original victim of "Intelligent Design"?

Funny, recanting didn't make the earth the center of the universe. Not even the Pope could do that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Aug 15 2006, 11:33 AM) [snapback]303553[/snapback]</div>

God obviously doesn't live near San Andreas, California

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Aug 15 2006, 12:21 PM) [snapback]303659[/snapback]</div>

The example you give is a Psalm which is extolling the power and majesty of God and not trying to explain the intricacies of orbiting planets. It uses figurative language to show God’s power in hanging the earth in space and man would not be able to move it from where God put it. The language used to describe the rising and setting of the sun is from a human stand point just as we use to this very day. I have never been accused of geocentrism because I ask someone for the time of the sunset or sunrise, have you?

I used the blog post to show that their is scientific truth in the Bible as it shows that the Earth is round far in advance of when science discovered.

Wildkow

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Aug 15 2006, 08:36 PM) [snapback]303847[/snapback]</div>

Lovely, thanks, I appreciate your well thought out response. Now, you state that in these examples, the language used is figurative. Could it be that Adam and Eve are also figurative, and refer more in a general sense to our ancestors as a people, rather than as 2 specific people? Could it be that the 6 day creation of the Earth is also figurative, and refers to periods of time in an geologic and ecological sense that are important to the sustanance of life as it currently exists, rather than 6 discrete 24 hour periods?

 

Dragonfly, you do realize that if the Earth turned out to be flat, Wildkow would be out trotting some sentence he thinks 'proves' the bible knew that ahead of science too; and the sentence above would be explained away as a figurative statement.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Aug 15 2006, 10:23 PM) [snapback]303885[/snapback]</div>

I think this is what's referred to as "truthiness". (Man, I love that show.)