Water4gas or Make your own bio-diesel

On the contrary, when you're trying to sell snake oil (or in this case perpetual motion) an accurate description will chase customers away.

Example:

"Our system places excess load on your engine, causing it to burn 10% more gas. In return, it injects H2 and O into the engine, causing it to go 5% farther, for a net loss of 5%. We guarantee that if you use our system your overall gas mileage will only drop by 5%. If it drops by more than 5% we will happily refund your money, less shipping and handling charges, a re-stocking fee, and a $750 reconditioning fee so that the unit will be like new for the next sucker."

I think if their intention is to make money, they have to make false claims and include bogus explanations. There are always enough people out there who will believe it.

 

I have done some research on water4gas and found something cheaper that offers the same thing.

If your even thinking about getting at water4gas you should see this: Water4Gas

You will save $50 this way!

anyway, hope it helps.

 

Same scam. Different web site. The amazing thing is that there are probably people so phenomenally stupid that they'll believe this crap!

 

It's amazing, isn't it. People want to believe so badly that they will swallow almost any crazy story, which is the fundamental principle behind every confidence scam.

Tom

 

I am far from an automotive expert but I do know how to read, and to think independently. I have googled this technology out of curiosity and I am amazed at the number of people on automotive chatboards who dismiss it as a scam without even bothering to understand what it's about.

I have read the Water4Gas website. Consider the following points:

- HHO as described by Water4Gas is not water; it's a rather inaccurate name for a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen gas, i.e. 2H2 + O2. Two parts hydrogen to one part oxygen, in other words. When you split water through electrolysis this is what you get. A couple of the posters in this forum need to review their high school chemistry.

- He (Ozzie Freedom--and yes, he says that is his real name) asserts that it is not "free energy" that you are deriving from his device but rather a more efficient use of gasoline by adding the 2H2+O2 gas mixture to the fuel vapor. He says this combination causes the fuel vapor to be burned more efficiently by making the mist finer. He says some other stuff about how hydrogen burning is good but I don't understand or quite remember it.

- The energy used to electrolyze the water (which has salts added for conduction) is indeed taken from the alternator but it's claimed that the current used is trivial, similar to the current used by the radio, and therefore it affects the gas mileage minimally. In other parts of the website he says the current is "extra" and "free" so I suspect he's been refining his own understanding of how his gadget works.

- A trucking company in Canada has installed these devices in some of their diesel trucks and is claiming improved gas mileage. (from a Wired news report)

- It's not a device he's selling but rather a book that describes how to do it, complete with part numbers and diagrams. It's not even a physical book but rather an ebook that you have to log on to his website to access, though you are free to print it if you wish.

- He states on his web page that people with 100 mpg ideas have been killed by the gov't and big business. In my opinion, it is this conspiracy claim which discredits him rather than his assertions about his invention, which can be proven or disproved quite easily by simply installing the device.

Be that as it may, the guy may be a con artist or he may have stumbled on an unlikely gadget that actually adds a couple of miles per gallon by improving combustion. Hydrogen injection is known to improve combustion. Hydrogen also blows up, and hydrogen-oxygen mixtures in a hot, sparky place like your car's engine sounds like a very iffy proposition, which is probably why such devices would not be mass produced even if they do work.

 

First post. Comes on and tells us that perpetual motion is real. Enough said.

 

How come everyone in this thread who defends this scam only has one post?

 

Because I just joined.

If everyone's this rude around here, probably this one will be my last.

 

Water is not a fuel. When your first posting to a Prius chat board is to promote a scam, you should not be surprised if the responses are harsh. If you have a real interest in the Prius, you will find a much warmer welcome in the Main Prius forum.

 

Good to have an excuse to move on eh?

If this was so good you would think friend would tell friend and it would have swept the globe, after all who couldn't reproduce the instructions and send them to a friend?

This thread managed to get from USA to Australia in a nanosecond so a few weeks for cars on water or what ever wouldn't be extreme. Fact is snake oil salesmen tell us about this stuff because it's crap, if it was good information our established friends would be telling us.

 

I'm not promoting any scams; it's called discussing. Go back to school and learn how to exchange ideas without insulting the other party.

In fact, I rather think the HHO thing is a scam, but unlike you I bothered to inform myself and think instead of just posting these embarrassingly ignorant responses as you have done.

Harsh reponses on the Prius chatboard, indeed. Maybe the car should be called the "Pious" instead, to reflect the intellectual level of its owners.

Bye.

 

Basically you got dumped on because this thread gets revived every few months, usually on a poster's first post, and, shocklingly, usually that poster is asserting that this "technology really works!"

I doubt many members read past the above three paragraphs, even if your electrolysis description is accurate. In future, if you want to assert something like that, it's best to provide a link. Electrolysis of water

You also assert that wired news has covered this story. A link there would be especially helpful. The only evidence of that I could find is what looks to be a 20 year old video submitted (by a user) to their website.
Wired: Water4Gas

The hair is a dead giveaway.

That and the fact that is says "Action6News" in big letters on the bottom.

A little more googling revealed that the male anchor retired 20 years ago.
Digg - Inventor Of Water Powered Car Murdered

While your later points (below) about hydrogen volatility seem real, I doubt that most people read that far. As soon as you flat out state that water4gas is not a scam, people here are gonna dump on you.

As Carl Sagan said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

 

When you post a link to a site claiming to have a perpetual motion machine, and you fail to label perpetual motion as a scam, or make it clear that it's a joke, you are promoting a scam. As Scott (MegansPrius) points out, we're rather tired of people whose very first post on PriusChat is to post a link to a scam web site. You insult our intelligence because we don't believe that cars can run on water??? Sorry, my friend, but both chemistry and physics are against you on this one.

 

If you want to discuss it, go over to gassavers.org. Some are actually experimenting with systems over there.

 

Seen this yet??

 

The point is that the amount of hydrogen produced is minuscule if the amount of electricity used is minuscule. There's no evidence that tiny amounts of hydrogen introduced into the intake have any effect on mileage.

Although the above-linked document describes a more efficient electrolysis, it's certainly years from practical application and isn't being used in the various hydrogen gizmos being sold now.

What really makes the "100mpg" claims absurd is that they're talking about bolting a single device to your gas guzzler to go from 22mpg to 100mpg without changing anything else. Losses in the drivetrain, wind resistance, and braking in a conventional car would require an absurdly efficient engine (perhaps even more than 100%) to get that sort of mileage.

The Prius at least has regenerative braking, streamlining, and the power-splitter device drivetrain, showing a more plausible approach of a car engineered from the ground up to be efficient.

 

Hmmm... yet another "I just joined this forum" individual.

BJJB

 

Better yet, check here, as it is far more informative:

Run your car on water? - it's a scam!

I particularly liked the video of a man powering his lawnmower using nothing but hydrogen and oxygen. He used a 150 pound electrolysis cell running at around 1.7 kW and putting out around 13 liters per minute to get the lawnmower barely running at idle.

BJJB

 

Yep. His first post, and he wants us to buy this perpetual motion machine, promising that if not satisfied we can ask for our money back. Well, that's true: You can ask for your money back. Ha!

 

Spam in its true and unadulterated form.

Tom