Way to go Catholic Church :-(

I disagree, it is because of vitriolic unreasonable attacks such as these which drives most decent people into turning their backs and leaving the ranks of atheism at the rate of hundreds per day. A good example being the puzzling effort by atheists every Christmas season to ruin it for everybody else. Their public use of mean-spirited intolerance is probably Christianity's best recruiting tool! Bring it on A's! :thumb:

 

As active as I've been recently on this topic, I'm not taking a lot of pleasure in these arguments, they have been going on for years.

While I agree with the PR backfires on the other side, I think a change in belief is a lot more likely to occur in a place other than threads in FHOP.

 

No, it isn't. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that it was. (Although, I must say the tactic of calling for a cease fire while continuing to fire is questionable.)

You are among the more polite posters on this topic. Certain others say such stupid, ridiculous things that their posts are not worth reading, let alone dignifying with a response. If it's any consolation, there's more I could say, too, but don't.

 

What did the Catholic Church do for her? Made it possible through support and assistance to do the thing in life she most wanted to do. Serve others. Know many atheist like that?

The Catholic Church is presently in the 21st century. It's hospitals, schools and community/humanitarian outreach is worldwide. Know any atheist organization like that? The Church accomplished that with but a fraction of the power it once had. Is the church perfect? Was Mother Teresa perfect? Are you? I know I'm not perfect but she would overlook the imperfections in others and attended them without being judgmental. When she slipped or when the members of the Catholic Church slips should we condemn them and seek their destruction. That's what atheist want, now look at Cambodia during Pol Pot, Russia, Communist China, North Korea etc. etc. etc. If religion is such a egregious burden to coexist with why don't the atheist go over there to live?

Even if that kind of power was offered to her, she would never have accepted it. Know many atheist that would pass up that kind of power?

Mother Teresa once got on a plane in India which was full of Hindu's. When they became aware of that fact most got out of their seats to kiss her feet and hands because of the love they felt for her. These were people of a completely different religion! Now that's power! Now that kind of love few, even a Pope, are accorded.

All that aside, she was given more power than any Pope or Potentiate. The power to restore a sick or dying person's faith or trust in God; to bring some peace and joy to someone terribly scarred by being unloved or uncared for and without cost.

Many travelled long distances to see Mother Teresa and be near her. They couldn't explain the joy in her presence. They simply knew it was real. Now that's power. Can anything which this world has to offer match that? I wonder who gave it to her?

God Bless

 

Hyo,

Sorry if I took it the wrong way...thank you for the clarification.

I too could escalate things (won't elaborate as others might try it), and hope I don't go there.

Bringing this topic up less often would be a good thing and it would more likely be civil - less "in your face." In the past when it's was more frequent, probably the only thing accomplished was lots of people were upset.

 

Treb,

I'm glad you brought up Mother Theresa....I'm hoping we can emulate that in these threads and have fewer flame wars.

________________________________

"If you could invite anyone to dinner, Who would it be?"

If I were to narrow it down to an atheist, my choice would be Gorbachev. First, for allowing real freedom of religion in the Soviet Union, then at various times, he has seemed to tease us with religion ( Mikhail Gorbachev - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

I would agree with him on environmental topics.

 

It would seem that even Mother Teresa wasn't always able to be "Mother Teresa". I make no claim to the veracity of the following, but be careful who you worship and sanctify.

Myth of Mother Teresa

 

,,, but I will post it anyway.

 

^ in regards to the Mother Teresa comment{sigh}

I might be a lot more open to hearing the shortcomings of Mother Theresa and others if folks like you were not so incessant with the negativity and criticism.

Occasionally we run across people that replaced "duh" or "uh" with the F-word - they tend to get tuned out.

In a similar vein, the atheist viewpoint by some here is bent on being contrary and hostile at every turn, diminishing their credibility. The Mother Theresa dig was right after an attempt to "agree to disagree", so the reply seems to be "HELL NO - we don't want to get along!!!"

For whatever her shortcomings are, Mother Theresa won the Nobel Peace Price in 1979, so is the Nobel Commission biased, corrupt, or foolish?

I have to consider the source of some the info - Christoper Hitchens...not exactly a neutral point of view to put it mildly

 

^if that was directed at me,,, I am merely pointing out that I don't think anyone is/was perfect. Have I state that churches and church goers had done good things over the mellenia, yes, feel free to search. (even in th is thread). Have I also said (and know) that churches and church goers have done despicable things over time? Yes.

Did Mother Teresa do good? Sure. Was she perfect? Of course not. Do I do good in this world? I think so, but I certainly am not perfect.

Icarus

PS you may take umbrage at what you perceive as "incessant criticism, amid negativity". I'm sorry (not apologizing sorry) but any and every institution should be able to stand criticism,be it government, church, school etc. Does that mean they shouldn't get praise when they do well, of course not. Having said that, many churches carry a lot of negative baggage along with their good works, I stated earlier in this thread.

Icarus

 

i.e. Christopher Hitchens is incapable of rendering a remotely fair view of Mother Teresa.

Yes, I got frustrated because after attempting to see if this topic can be flamed a lot less, one response seems to be contempt.

 

The question then would be, how should we view Mother Teresa if what Hitchens is correct in his assessment if her flaws. Philosophical question, as Sister Prejean was quoted, do we judge the entirety of ones life, or just certain actions?

My answer is,, it depends to a great extent on what those actions are/were. One doesn't get a pass for just doing good works.

Icarus

 

Icarus,

Several people have attempted to give it a rest on this thread - why it that a problem?

This topic has been fought for years - is there any point in going on indefinitely?

Let me see....if it continues for another five years everybody is going to convert to atheism?...what in the history of this topic would lead anyone to entertain that?

So you and others have this pipe dream that one day after the umpteenth flame we all convert to your viewpoint and say "uncle?" That's realistic?

So far the lines have hardened over the strife these flame wars have produced instead.

 

Except for one, you are absolutely correct. Mother Teresa undoubtedly would have admitted she was not perfect. All the truly great ones would.

 

Have I ever said publicly, on these boards that I am an atheist? Am I trying to "convert" anyone to atheism? The answer to both questions is,,NO!

What I have said, is that I don't believe in any organized religion, and in fact organized religion has been a significant force of death and destruction throughout, a fact that only the blind can dispute.

Icarus

 

Actually, black is the absence of color while grays and white are combinations of color.

 

Sorry I got your belief's wrong, Icarus.

If organized religion is so evil why was the first opponent of capital punishment, Cesare Beccaria - a Christian? (note: Christians are on both sides of this issue...bottom line is banning capital punishment is not a secular idea) Why were the early advocates of human care of the mentally ill, women's rights, and proponents to end slavery predominately Christian?

But back to my point: There are very strong opinions on this topic, so pushing it will not win people over but harden opinions....on just about any other topic it would be agreed it's time to let it rest.

 

I stand corrected.

 

I never said that there weren't religious people who did good deeds.

It is not just a simple logic question, if A, ergo B. A and B can can and indeed does exist at the same time.

To make an over the top analogy, even a broken watch is right twice a day.

Icarus