We need a Windfall Profits Tax on the Oil Industry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DocVijay @ Apr 29 2006, 01:51 AM) [snapback]247108[/snapback]</div>

You're missing something here Doc. Presently our very lives DOES depend on oil, maybe not directly, but very definitely in an indirect way. Assuming you buy your food from a market (as opposed to raising your own), oil is needed in the production and distribution of your food. The same thing goes for clothing or anything else you buy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dipper @ Apr 29 2006, 02:46 AM) [snapback]247127[/snapback]</div>

The money shouldn't go to GM! It should go to municipalities, NREL, and tax credits for individuals and companies.

Most of England's high gas tax goes to fund the Tube and the double decker buses. Not a bad way to go.

Nate

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DocVijay @ Apr 29 2006, 01:51 AM) [snapback]247108[/snapback]</div>

I need to drive a car, to go to work, to make money so I can pay for energy, energy which is used to power my house, cook my food, and power my car so I can go to work, make money, etc...

I really don't have a choice. So you can see, if I don't drive, my family dies.

I said it before on this thread---oil is a necessity of life right now. It is very much like food.

This energy crisis is not as bad as the 70's. I remember the gas lines. If gas prices rose with inflation, we should be paying over $4 a gallon now.

What we need is a serious conservation effort, raising the MPG (to 25 MPG minimum for EVERY vehicle, not an average) for the US auto fleet, eliminating the tax breaks for the oil companies, investing in alternative fuels, and yes, even the possiblity of drilling in ANWR (even though I hate the thought of it) and the gulf coast.

 

Oil is not a necessity. You only think it is. If you stop driving your car, you will not die. There are other ways to get things done.

Saying your food supply is in jeopardy beacuse of oil prices is simply silly. There is plenty of oil today. If it came down to only enough oil to fuel the trucks bringing food or your car, it's an easy choice.

Saying we need to tax oil companies profits and regulate the cost of oil because gas is $3.00 a gallon is stupid.


Let's regulate the price of prescription drugs. Lives REALLY depend on those. But regulate the price, profits drop, and research stops. We all loose.

Let's regulate the costs of healthcare. Well, same as above. We all loose.

There are many things that lives depend on DIRECTLY, yet they are not regulated. To do so is a folly and results only in more problems.

Gas is $3.00 a gallon. Big deal! My family in Norway has been paying $5.00 and up for a long time, and Norway is fully self-sufficient for oil.

At $3.00 a gallon, gas is still cheaper than bottled water. There's another thing. Life would not exist without water. Let's regulate tha cost of that so everyone can get cheap bottled water. Only way to ensure everyone gets clean, pure water. Let's tax the profits of bottling companies that make too much.

Oil is not necessary for life.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DocVijay @ Apr 28 2006, 11:51 PM) [snapback]247108[/snapback]</div>

YOU are telling millions of people WHO ARE ABSOLUTELY DEPENDENT ON THEIR VEHICLES TO GET TO WORK that they don't need to drive a car? Are you serious?

In other words, you believe that almost everyone who works either lives close enough to their place of employment to walk OR is served by low-cost mass transit whose schedule is convenient to everyone's working hours?

No one needs to drive to go shopping, regardless of how heavy and/or large their purchases are?

No one needs to drop kids or other family members off at school or for after-school activities, or take them to medical appointments or the library or a friend's house?

Driving a car is a "pure luxury" ?

I can't believe you're a physician and saying things like this. Have you been standing too close to the anesthesia?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ghostofjk @ Apr 29 2006, 03:29 PM) [snapback]247251[/snapback]</div>

Driving a car IS a luxury. There are millions of people in this country who don't, either by choice or because it's cost prohibitive. If you cannot drive, you make do some other way. I never said it was easy, but it is possible. Every single situation you listed CAN be accomplished without owning a car. Life is obviously much easier if you have one, but it is NOT a necessity.

Oil is NOT a necessity.

A car IS a luxury.

My wife's grandmother never learned how to drive. She has no car. She has NEVER purchased even single gallon of gasoline. Yet somehow she has managed to survive for the past 83 years. Amazing. An 83 year old disabled woman can somehow manage to survive in the middle of Miami without a car, yet you claim it is impossible.

Maybe THIS is the root of our oil dependence and not all those "idiots in Hummers," as many PC members claim.

Finally, I am not a physician. My wife is, but after my 3rd year of med school I deceided I wanted something else, so now I'm in Law School. I've just always used that screen name. But what I want to know is, what does one's occupation have to do with this? Why would being a physician make it any different. I'm not sure I understand that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DocVijay @ Apr 29 2006, 02:03 PM) [snapback]247247[/snapback]</div>

OK Doc, reading back I didn't word my first post very well (sorry bout that), my main point is with the price oil skyrocketing there are going to be LARGE price increases in the price we pay for food, clothing etc. There are a lot of people living on the edge now that simply cannot afford the increased cost. It's not the price at the pump but the ripple effect that will complicate things more.



Ghostofjk brings up a great point as well, many (me for one) do not even have mass transit available, let alone a schedule that coincides with work hours.



And I wont even go into what the prices are doing for the airline industry...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Apr 29 2006, 08:49 AM) [snapback]247180[/snapback]</div>

The problem is, when we get taxed... money seemed to disappeared to somewhere except the intended purpose. I rather invest my money to startups than having the government figure out how to mess it up.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DocVijay @ Apr 29 2006, 01:21 PM) [snapback]247266[/snapback]</div>

Simply that I expected a doctor to be too intelligent to say stuff like that.

But a lawyer? Now it makes sense! :lol:

(Hear any good lawyer jokes lately?)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tleonhar @ Apr 29 2006, 04:27 PM) [snapback]247269[/snapback]</div>

Yes, you are right about prices going up. If you search for other threads like this one and about increasing gas prices, you'll find that there are many who are happy that gas is going so high in price. I think this is as stupid as taxing oil profits. One person once insinuated that if people couldn't afford the gas they should just buy more fuel efficient cars. If they can't afford gas, how the hell are they going to afford a new car!?! This is the thinking that bugs me. Read some of those other threads and you'll see how I feel about this.

If we tax the profits of the oil companies, effectively reducing the total income, they will simply raise the price of gas to a level that compensates for that lost profit. To think otherwise is idiocy. They are a busines and their sole purpose is to make money. That's how a business runs.

I know mass transit is limited in most cities. Like I said, it wouldn't be easy, but even you could do it. Anyone can do it if they need to. If you have to fly, you have to fly, it's that simple.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ghostofjk @ Apr 29 2006, 04:29 PM) [snapback]247271[/snapback]</div>

OK, that I get. Yes, you could expect an educated person to make educated statements. I really don't see how mine is "unintelligent." As I said, millions of people do without cars in this country. My 83 year old grandmother-in-law does without a car. It IS possible for ANYONE to do without a car if they had to. It's the adversity to inconvenience of this that makes us dependent on oil, not SUV's. "Save the environment? Of course!" "Give up my car? Hell no!" Even if you drive a Prius you are still using oil. Less of course, but you still use it!


Yes, I'm the last person you would ever expect to be a lawyer. I really don't like them much. But rather than "if you can't beat them, join them," it's really an, "if you can't beat them, infiltrate the ranks and do it from the inside." Seriously though, I see law as an effective tool to make real changes, rather than just whine about stuff online on some forum. While that is fun, it doesn't really accomplish anything.

Lawyer jokes? I've got a million of 'em.

 

Anyone that thinks we need windfall profit tax on oil needs their head examined. Sure XOM made billions of dollars this past quarter - but so what, isn't that what a free economy is about. Further, I doubt any of you that want this tax would operate any business that only made 10% profits! Yes, that is all the biggest oil company in the world makes - that is hardly a windfall. I own a small business and would get out of it in a flash if I did not make at least 30% profit. 10% profit for an operating business is tiny, check out all the other S&P500 companies and you will see what I am talking about.

You same people that whine about what the oil companies are making now were not asking congress to give them a bailout a few years back when crude was selling for $10 a barrel and gasoline was selling in many parts of the country for well under a dollar a gallon including all taxes. The oil industry is a boom and bust industry and there will be times when they rake in money and other times when they loose money, that is the way it works. It takes about 10 years from the time a geologist finds and oil deposit until gasoline is made from that oil, break up the big oil companies and there will be far fewer investments made to find the oil we all need.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DocVijay @ Apr 29 2006, 04:44 PM) [snapback]247286[/snapback]</div>

OK DocVijay...I give...I'm going to NOT accept my Prius this week that is due in and walk the 8 miles to work each day. You see, I am a doctor in the military and if I'm called in to the clinic, I'll just have the patient wait 2 hours for me to get there. I'll just explain to them that since I really don't need a car, I've decided to walk. They'll understand.

You are insane!!!! All of us that live in the 'burbs need a car. Period. You can't convince me and others that you don't need a car. Maybe you live in the city, I don't know. Therefore, since I've just established the fact that I need a car, then I also need oil. Oil now becomes a necessity. If we start using ethanol like Brazil, then ethanol will become a necessity.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DocVijay @ Apr 29 2006, 02:51 AM) [snapback]247108[/snapback]</div>

I think the rising price of oil does endanger human life in terms of heating the houses as the majority of the constructed houses in some parts of the US rely on oil as a heating source. You are right, you may run the heat on electricity or NG but the problem is that a lot of the lower income households cannot afford to pay for high electricity bills. Oil heating systems still prevail. Where would these people come up with resources to equip their houses with high tech electricity driven heating systems? You couldn't do it in a small house for less than $10,000. Since you live in a warm climate, you don’t get the oil heating bills asking for extra donation to help all those who are in crisis and can't afford to pay the rising cost of heating. There are also existing state driven funds to help those in need, for which the tax payer pays. Why should taxpayers be punished for high oil costs for those who cannot afford it, but oil companies can profit? Perhaps oil companies should have funds to help out those who are in danger.
I guess your profession does not allow having a moralistic nor ethical approach to this issue, as according to you not infringing on insane profits is the greatest sound and responsible conduct of the society. As long as the rich people can profit without any curtailment all other issues are secondary.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hybridTHEvibe @ Apr 29 2006, 05:25 PM) [snapback]247300[/snapback]</div>

Well said. It's about time our government begins to look at these run-away profits from Big Oil and Big Pharmacy. I've read the arguments that 10% profit is nothing for a business. Yes that is true, but the business of energy and health care should NOT be for huge profit. These are necessities of life. TV's, computers, expensive shoes, etc... are not necessities of life.

Energy and health care should not be about profit and greed. We need these things as a society and it's about time the US approaches this differently.

Since I practice medicine in the military and for non-profit, I feel good each day that I help people and not make them choose between their medicines and food. I don't know how I'm going to feel when I retire from the military in three years and thrust into the world of for-profit health care.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ Apr 29 2006, 06:11 PM) [snapback]247294[/snapback]</div>

Thank you. You just strengthened my argument. Why do you live in the suburbs? Probably tha same reason I do. It's much nicer, quieter, less crime, more trees, nicer house and yards, etc. The list goes on for a while. Now if you could not drive your car what do you do? You move. As I've said over and over. It is not easy, but it can be done. You said you are in the military. Why not live on base? You'd be much closer. Not as nice as the 'burbs. Don't blame you. But live on base and you could easily walk or bike to work.

As I said, it's a matter of us not wanting to give up our life of convenience. Everyone who lives in the suburbs made the choice to move there. I did. I like the lifestyle out here. Yes it means I drive farther, but I have no misconceptions as to the necessity of it. I did not NEED to life out here. I did not NEED to be so far form work/school/daycare/wahtever. I made that choice as did you and all your neighbors. You have the LUXURY of being able to drive you car. Take that luxury away and you need to make some changes. Is it practical? No. Is it easy? No. But it IS possible.

You need to differentiate between a need and a want. You did not NEED to live where you do, you WANTED to. Hence you now "need" to drive your car. You made choices which led to the situation. I commute 120-160 miles each day. I made certain choices that created that situation. We have a wonderful house in a wonderful neighborhood. We don't want to move. I choose to drive that far. If we had to we could move much closer of course, but we don't want to. I don't want to give up my car either, but I'm not deluded into thinking it's a necessity. I "need" to drive that far becuase I choose to stay where I am. If I could not drive my car, then I'd move. But I can, and I'm going to keep driving. I love my life of convenience and luxury, of where I live, and having a car, and I'm not ready to give it up. I'm just as guilty as everyone else, but at least I know it.

The ripple effect was mentioned. It applies here too. It is not a static situation; have a car, don't have a car. No, if you don't have a car, you must make changes to everything you do. And don't go and say that's it's unreasonable to suggest selling the house or making such radical changes. I said many, many times it's not easy. But anyone can make changes that would make it easier to give up driving. Everyone makes choices in their lives and those choices have effects that are widespread. Because you and I want to live in the suburbs, we are contributing to our nations dependence on oil. Don't blame the oil companies from profiting from our weakness.

I'm not suggesting you give up driving, just don't be deluded into thinking it's really a necessity. You only need to because you choose to.




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hybridTHEvibe @ Apr 29 2006, 06:25 PM) [snapback]247300[/snapback]</div>

Don't be so quick to make assumptions!

Because I live in a warm climate, I receive electric bills asking for extra donation to help all those who are in crisis and can't afford to pay the rising cost of cooling. There are also existing state driven funds to help those in need, for which the tax payer pays.

Wow! Sounds almost exactly what you said. In the summer, people start dropping dead from the extreme heat and humidity. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

But you are right, it is tough on the poor. It usually is. If you are trying to argue this to me then you are preaching to the choir. Read the other threads on gas prices. I often post as the proponent of the poor. "These high gas prices will teach those stupid SUV drivers a lesson." Yeah, and it'll punish the poor the whole time...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hybridTHEvibe @ Apr 29 2006, 06:25 PM) [snapback]247300[/snapback]</div>

Forgot to answer this part...

So I'm now insane, immoral, and unethical! And I haven't even finished law school yet. I'm off to a GREAT start.

Infringing upon the profits of the oil companies would accomplish nothing but further INCREASE gas prices as they try and regain those profits. It won't work.

This is a free market society. It may not be perfect, but it's on of the best on the planet.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DocVijay @ Apr 29 2006, 07:00 PM) [snapback]247306[/snapback]</div>

You missed the point of me stating that people do not have any other alternative to oil heating and you keep saying that oil is a luxury item and people have a choice to skip it. In what way? Unless the government is going to reinstall everyone's heating system from oil based to electric.
I never said that you were insane. I said that you find it moral and ethical for someone to make a kill but for others to suffer or die, which according to you is a reflection of a civilized and advanced society.
I do not care what someone said somewhere else in some other thread. I am responding to what you said in this thread and how you presented yourself.
As far as this being one of the best free market societies, that's according to you, but those who are freezing their asses off and can't pay the heating bill might have a different opinion on this subject.
Who is proclaiming it as the best??? By whose authority and what is the social make up of this authority?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hybridTHEvibe @ Apr 29 2006, 07:26 PM) [snapback]247318[/snapback]</div>

No you didn't, buy eyeguy13 did. I was merely summing up all the descriptive terms.

Who is procaliming it as the best? You already said it yourself in the previous sentence, "that's according to you." By whose authority? Mine. Social make up? Middle/Upper-class mixed race immigrant. How's that. I stated my opinion, why are you asking for authority. I didn't realize I needed permission to present my opinion.

I never said anything about civilized or advanced. I said this is one of the best free market economies in the world, if not the best. I'm living the American Dream at its best, how could I speak against it?

This thread is about (or supposed to be) taxing oil companies for making too much money. Yes I think this is stupid. It has nothing to do with the rich killing the poor. My point was, and always has been that this is an asinine idea, as it would do nothing but RAISE gas prices. This as you pointed out is bad for the poor. They can't afford it as it is, but to institute a policy that makes it even worse in an attempt to punish a company for doing well?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DocVijay @ Apr 29 2006, 06:00 PM) [snapback]247306[/snapback]</div>

I didn't want to live here. I'm serving my country and was given orders to come here. I don't live on base because there was no base housing available when I moved here. We always need good lawyers in the military. PM me and I can get you in touch with a recruiter.

When I retire, I WILL make those choices. I will live near work so I can ride my bike. When I was stationed in Oklahoma and Japan, I lived near the hospital and it was wonderful. I loved walking or cycyling to work. But, you still need a car to go shopping, take the kids to after school activites, etc... Be realistic. But some of us do not have a choice and simply packing up and moving is cost prohibited.

BTW, you're right, I said you were insane. Not the other guy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DocVijay @ Apr 29 2006, 08:11 PM) [snapback]247326[/snapback]</div>

Perhaps you should retract your statement about oil being unnecessary luxury item as I pointed out to you that there are people whose lives are in direct danger because they can't afford it in terms of heating.

My issue was strictly about oil and survival.

Are those who can't heat their houses or suffer from freezing, do they live an American Dream? Or perhaps according to you they are not worth mentioning but you would certainly like to reward those who make an insane profit.
Yes, government represents all, not those who are well off and are fulfilling an American Dream, and if you can't comprehend this then perhaps we should proclaim our nation as a plutocratic society and not a democracy. Maybe we should amend the U.S. Constitution and Bills of Rights.
You being well off does not mean this is the best society as not everyone has the same opportunities as you do. Sounds insensitive to me. People who are well off in other countries are saying that their society is the best and they simply proclaim this on the base of their wealth and fulfillment of their dreams. It's hardly a measure of wealth of a society at large, unless, of course by society you mean "privileged".
As a student of law you must have heard of such economic term known as “voluntary downsizing” of profits. There are thousands of corporations in many industries that are willingly curtailing their obscene profits for the sake of grater benefits for their employees, lesser environmental impact and greater social responsibility. And these exemplary corporations still prosper but are also gaining a respect as socially driven and responsible capitalist entities.
Is there a panacea in taxation, I don’t know, but ghostofjk’s idea of some kind of regulatory system maybe worth investigating.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hybridTHEvibe @ Apr 29 2006, 08:48 PM) [snapback]247340[/snapback]</div>

First of all, let me repeat a previous post and don't be so quick to make assumptions. You only make an nice person of yourself. Second, thank you for informing me of what I do and do not comprehend. It's all so clear now. You stated that you don't care what is said in other threads. That's too bad. I usually do that to see who I'm up against. You have just over 100, so it didn't take too long to read. But I did find some good quotes of yours:

"And if you don't read somebody's posts how can you know what they are saying?"
"...you are either stupid or you don't want to see it."
"WOW you are a moron after all."
"You are an idiot"
"a looney defending a looney, hilarious"
"I've noticed that the strength of your meds tends to reflect on the "depth" of your posts."
"Dude, you just proved you are an idiot again"
"You are so dumb and shallow."
"You are a joke, moron, and an idiot."
"...and you are an idiot despite of the "right" direction"
"Life sucks when you are an idiot, doesn't it?"
"Nauru, Seychelles, Kiribati you MORON! Ohh did you perhaps want me to go back to the times of Homo erectus???"
"DUDE, you are on CRACK!"
"But you are the epithomy of mediocrity, and you will have a hard time running from it."
"And you are DANGEROULSY STUPID"
"You are excused because you are a PSYCHO and you spit PSYCHOBABBLE"
"Coming from someone who lacks any kind of thinking and common knowledge, that's hillarious"
"The fact that you are a moron is your universal characteristic and any idiotic post you make anywhere on this board will be used to prove that."
"You are a MORON"
"You are a joke."

Very interesting. Even though I see there's absolutely no point, I decided to answer anyway.

So do I reward someone for making insane profits? Absolutely! They are doing something right. Our society rewards people for taking successful risks and punishes them for taking foolish risks. I believe that everyone, people and businesses, have the right to to the best they can with minimal government interference.

In this country everyone has opportunity. The situation is often different, but at least they have a chance. I spent time in several 3rd world countries, and have seen poverty at its basest level. In these countries there is NO chance of anything for these people. That is why people flock to America. Why do we have 12 million illegal immigrnats here? Becuase of the chance to live the American Dream. I came from sleeping on a blanket on the floor to the way too expensive bed I have now. Could I have done that in any other country? Probablly not. I'm not the only one that thinks this coutry has a great economic system. If that was the case, we would not have so many who come here at any cost.