Well .. battery pack went again ... no suprise though ...

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by chronon, Apr 2, 2021.

  1. chronon

    chronon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    571
    86
    3
    Location:
    here and there aint be in frozen wasteland no mo..
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    put one module in and started putting the under screws in (while the other module is cycling) ...

    boy ii thought this was gonna be an ez 'no wakamole' project .. until i tried pulling out a module and remembered the UNDER batttery screws ../bolt ... yeah .. so then u need to like get a mirror to see if the hole will accept the screw to thread into the under of the positive side of the module .. and that's fun in the back hatch area .. i would imagine it would be torture for someone close to 6 foot or more .. most people take the pack out of the car .. sorry .. just had younger brother go in for back surgery .. aint gonna fuss with this monstrosity like that ... (it's worse on the 1st gen) ...
    .....

    what a pain putting that end block squeeze prismatic array end cap on ....
     
    #41 chronon, Apr 16, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  2. chronon

    chronon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    571
    86
    3
    Location:
    here and there aint be in frozen wasteland no mo..
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    got the harness on .. put together enough to start car .. bars were high then fell to 1 as it began charging as it has been sitting a week or so ..
    move car back and forth few feet
    got up to 51% ... shut off .. started car again .. soc down to 42.5 ...
    move car back and forth few feet
    car starts and will not run as it is up to temp and has enough charge ... letting sit a while to try and see how it stabilizes ...
    i should have prob. discharged the replacement modules to the level of the other modules .. will try scantree i mean techstream next to see what kind of report is given ...
     
  3. chronon

    chronon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    571
    86
    3
    Location:
    here and there aint be in frozen wasteland no mo..
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    just connected the TS and nothing reported from the main systems ...
    hmmm.. too good to be true ? i guess ill start buttoning up and 'torquing' things down then off for a around the block test drive ...

    i used to be able to see the live or at least a report of all voltage blocks .. either cant or not finding the particular
    option to get those .. this is also on torque pro .. a most useful feature ...
     
  4. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2020
    556
    233
    0
    Location:
    NJ-USA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Techstream should show battery block voltages. If the wiring is connected then why not force charge and get the battery up to a high SOC and maybe a short drive before refitting everything else?

    Why not get Dr Prius or Hybrid Assistant to view battery data?
    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    chronon likes this.
  5. chronon

    chronon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    571
    86
    3
    Location:
    here and there aint be in frozen wasteland no mo..
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    i did exactly that .. went around the neighborhood .. came back problem free then continued to button up things .. (always a couple bolts somewhere httat need to be found though) .. i didnt force charge though ..

    dr. prius sounds great .. then u read that u spend $30 and get to use it 3 times .. then it expires ... thta dont sound too good ...

    i will check into hybrid assistatn ... i have dtorque pro somewhere .. (need to find that old android its loaded on )

    .. so i'm going to take it on multi mile run now .. wish me good wishes ... well wishes and good tidings ... ;)

    Charge was a stead !20~ amps ... no flip flopping from a bad cell and a reversed voltage ...


    side note .. this pack must have come out of a car where ethey hauled the pets around ( the original was too as the fan blades were packed with pet hair) ...

    hair and dust .. i vaccuumed and water surface cleaned somewhat ...


    ... until the next issue occurrs .. hopefully many months down the line ....
     
  6. chronon

    chronon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    571
    86
    3
    Location:
    here and there aint be in frozen wasteland no mo..
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    wel .. raining and bad omens .. it was not without much trepidation .. and intarnation of the obomanation .. ok tyrade aside.. skin in the game and blood from pinky finger slicing the casing of the pack ..

    so i thought i was leaving and push button to get nasty red triangle .. in addition to that .. the nasty 'car died' 12v battery needs a jump ..

    get going .. run Techstream .. get the hv interlock error .. yeah its not locking .. that stupid little jumper closure .. is not happening .. i have to bend metal .. and keep trying and it is drizzling out .. .. that connector pops out with plastic spring ..
    keep looking at it and the pins in the fuse interlock.. deside its not happening .. and remove connector .. put it directly into the interlock so the final 'lock connect' is not happening .. but bypassed .. and i'm off to the races .. i hate doing these hacks but
    maybe i can find the old interlock off the old pack (if i kept it ) .. it's running .. i'm trying not to bump the car ..
    but was going to pick up from wendy's drive through with big nice person suv on my rear and i ran over a curb .. maybe i should put a pillow or 2 on that seat to sit higher ....
     
  7. chronon

    chronon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    571
    86
    3
    Location:
    here and there aint be in frozen wasteland no mo..
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    well tonight i was driving long time . . doing deliveries where its sitting a while while on .. i came back from one and heard the high speed whining sound .. got to a bright location under a street light shut it off and saw that i forgot to put the TOP plastic fan shroud to the battery for cooling .. i guess there is a top nd bottom fan ? it was dark but theree is bottom and top shrouding .. it may not have been getting any forced air if it all comes from the top shroud .. it was in the lower 70's then went pretty much straight home with 4 down ..
    after about a few minutes the fan speed gradually stepped it self down until the ECU was happy with the cooler temps ..

    ... thats why i hate disassembly .. with a long time period to get parts .. it sits there .. when parts come things go back to get it going but important things like that top fan shroud got forgotten ....
     
  8. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    5,289
    2,853
    0
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    You can't mix old and new modules. That is just asking for trouble. If you go the new "D-cell looking .. combo block" route, you need to get all new modules and replace all old modules.
     
    chronon likes this.
  9. chronon

    chronon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    571
    86
    3
    Location:
    here and there aint be in frozen wasteland no mo..
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    yes dropping a grand on a set of 14 would be nice .. ($72 per

    but the prius oem will fail eventually 1 by 1 .. in the mean time ... u could be replaceing a block at a time at about $75 (i imagine this will creep down to $50 as lithium gets more and more useage) .. improving the life of the remaining with the extra air flow and saving some down payment $$ .. not sure how the internal resistance is going to upset the ECU which could be the big hinderence ... i have heard u can put gen 3 modules in gen 2 car .. and gen 3 surely has less internal resistance ...
     
  10. chronon

    chronon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    571
    86
    3
    Location:
    here and there aint be in frozen wasteland no mo..
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    on today's outing .. i noticed before leaving driveway that the bars were low .. in fact SOC reported about 36% .. i know i was well over half when parked last night .. something goign on .. will have to get that hybrid assistant going to further check voltages and such .... b(since i'm too cheap to spend another $5 on torque pro .. ha )
     
  11. chronon

    chronon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    571
    86
    3
    Location:
    here and there aint be in frozen wasteland no mo..
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    Thx for that suggestion Mr. Guy !.. the HA seams to be a Euro developed app. for droid and prefers blue tooth (whereas torque prefers a wifi adapter) ..

    That app is really nice .. intuitive, colorful and easy to use .. without much messing around i was able to pull up the module pairs ... and see the real time voltages ..

    started the car with soc at 36% ... HV fan whiring hard .. --

    when i view the module voltages they are all basically very close except block 8 which is way down .. (took a screen grab i'll try and post later) .. i guess its pack disassembly time and figure which next module needs replacing in that black ....
    wow .. i got a whole day's use out of the 2 module replacement and the next weaker originals are failing ...
     
  12. chronon

    chronon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    571
    86
    3
    Location:
    here and there aint be in frozen wasteland no mo..
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    well after looking more closely to the small graphicals .. the main voltage most are carrying is around 16.4 to 16.5 v .. and the 'low' one is still within the 1,2v difference .. its down around 16.2 or 16.15 ... one thing i didnt do was torque the nuts ..
    i see 48" pounds is required .. that maybe an issue .. i figured the 1st click or 2 on the impact drill on low was enough .. i will go back with 1/4" torque wrench set at 48"# to verify them all are at least that tight ... -- but i dont know why the HV fan is kicking on so fast .. i thought the pack has to get pretty hot before that thing starts going into turbo blow mode ...
     
  13. chronon

    chronon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    571
    86
    3
    Location:
    here and there aint be in frozen wasteland no mo..
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    actually it is the app causing the fan .. that block 8 is on the hairy edge of tripping the delta RedRooster ...
    .. there is a fan speed setting for reading .. anyway .with the app off and obd BT discon... the turbo fan goes away ...
     
  14. chronon

    chronon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    571
    86
    3
    Location:
    here and there aint be in frozen wasteland no mo..
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    well went to do a delivery and got about 5 miles and fan kicks on .. red triangle on odometer panel and problem rectangle on mfd .. right before the pickup .. delivery was 5 miles away from home + 8.5 miles to go straight home .. what happens is
    that block 8 hovers right above the delta pointt then at times with like a/c on or engine off extended .. it drops below the threshold .. what a roller coaster .... hybrid assistant dont let you change nuthin while its taking your speed reading ...
     
  15. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    5,289
    2,853
    0
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Good grief Charlie Brown! Now you're talking about mixing Lithium and NiMH. Sorry you are just asking for even more problems. This will not work.

    You cannot add a single (or pair of) modules to an old battery. You either need to replace all the modules with new, or if you want to replace one or two modules, you need to replace them with old modules that match the capacity of the remaining old modules for best out come.
     
    #55 dolj, Apr 19, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
    chronon likes this.
  16. chronon

    chronon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    571
    86
    3
    Location:
    here and there aint be in frozen wasteland no mo..
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    on the lithium i was making mention because the pricepoint is not far off from the nimh .. i would not dare mix lithium with other chemistry !

    i have old modules .. capacity matching is another story .. getting the same year production is yet another story ..
     
  17. chronon

    chronon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    571
    86
    3
    Location:
    here and there aint be in frozen wasteland no mo..
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    went for 5 miles .. turn off and 5 miles back ...
    HV fan goes into turbo mode within 10 seconds after starting .

    when it sits overnight.. the battery is down around 36%soc which is about 1 bar -- i will try and get to that
    block 8 .. first should run techstream to verify codes on the hybrid system control and ECU ...
     
  18. chronon

    chronon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    571
    86
    3
    Location:
    here and there aint be in frozen wasteland no mo..
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    have battery partially disassembled .. as it turns out for point of reference .. a 24v kobalt 3/8" socket driver on speed 1 IS NOT 48" pounds of torque on the 1st click or 2 as i put my torque wrench to some nuts and was able to get 1/4 to 1/2 more turn on them ....
     
  19. chronon

    chronon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    571
    86
    3
    Location:
    here and there aint be in frozen wasteland no mo..
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    all nuts torqued to spec.

    i put the replacement into slot/block 8 ..
    To get to block 8 ( about midpoint) i just redid the same removal process i did when i worked on blocks 1 and 4 ... except .. now i had to undo the bottom nuts ... ( i did only 1 side ) and was able to wack/-a-mole the modules out ... they interlock .. i undid 2 or 3 around the one needing romaval ..
    it was a real pain to remove it with the pack still in the car .. alot of tugging and pulling .. and some rubber hammering and screw drivering to pry under .. this job would be a real stink if it werent for a drilll socket for quick removal and install of all the nuts .. i dont look forward to putting the bolts UNDER the blocks still to go ...
    after all that and test with hybrid assistant ...


    then block 9 starts actinup ..
    seems the more times i ran it the more blocks 8 and 9 'smoothed' out .. (or had voltage recovery closer to the pack average)

    i took the bus bars/and nuts off blocks 8 and 9 and instead of alcohol had some alcohol hand gel that i dont use and applied that over any corrrosion areas ..
    used a small brush to work it in --- did see some slight oxidation on the battery terminal (the protrusion from the battery cas that is the base of the screw for the terminal connection. and those flimsy battery sense terminals .. wow .. when u torque the nuts they can grab and they twist and seem barely thick enough to not destructivley connect ..

    i ran out of daylight again .. in the am will button it up and hopefully further 'smooothing out' will occurr .. i saw blocks 8 and 9 stay within about .5 v of the rest ...

    I am concerned that block 9 started dropping .. this is not a good sign of 'fixiing the pack ' ..
     
    #59 chronon, Apr 19, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  20. chronon

    chronon Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    571
    86
    3
    Location:
    here and there aint be in frozen wasteland no mo..
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    ----USA----
    went and started this am .. only a few bars .. blocks 8 and 9 low/flaky ... then 9 goes high after engine warmup ..(and battery charge) ...
    now i'm attempting to in-the-pack battery balance the module 8 replacement that i apparently Discharged more than charged .. or attempting to bring it up to the voltage/charge level of the average ... i'm sure this 15 yr old pack has no where near the 6500mAh rating left in each module but ill take 3/4 or even 1/2 that as i continue to use the car .. after all i got 4 new tires on and want to get some mileage out them !
     
Loading...