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What all vehicles can we use battery cells from?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by StephenJ, Aug 24, 2024.

  1. StephenJ

    StephenJ Member

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    The battery is getting weak in our 2009 and I'd like to find a newer vehicle that has a lot of life left to get cells from to install in my 2nd Gen pack. I feel like that would be better than a rebuild full of 15yr old cells.

    I thought a list of cars/years might be helpful.

    Will all Toyota/Lexus hybrid battery packs work as long as it's NiMh and not Li-Ion?
     
    #1 StephenJ, Aug 24, 2024
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2024
  2. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    You can use NiMh modules from 2020 AWDe (like mine) and maybe other AWDe Prii through 2023.

    JeffD
     
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  3. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Gonna be tough to find . The wait will be an issue . You got to try and find it in your area so you can go put your eyes on it before you plop down your money because sellers will take a dump on you and you'll have no recourse the sellers have gotten wise they understand what they need to do all that stuff so depending upon your market should be sometime lot of salvage yards don't communicate anymore and don't ship stuff around the places so you have to be careful seems like all the dilly-dally and around what have you and what you're going to pay for that buying a new battery before the price increase should have been the thing I guess.
     
  4. StephenJ

    StephenJ Member

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    Yeah, I would have bought a new one, I didn't know the price was increasing, found out when I tried to buy one.
     
  5. StephenJ

    StephenJ Member

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    Anyone know about a 2020 Corolla hybrid? Does it have interchangeable cells and enough of them?
     
  6. StephenJ

    StephenJ Member

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    Here is some info I found on a 5yr old post....

    "The Prius C, Gen 2, and Gen 3 modules are interchangeable. The same modules are also used in the Toyota Camry, Cadillac Escalade, Chevy Tahoe, Chevy Silverado, and Nissan Altima."

    Anyone care to add specific year models and some updated info? With the cost of a new battery nearly exceeding the value of the car, id like to start looking for wrecked vehicles that are 2020 or newer. It's getting confusing to keep up with what cars/models have NiMh versus Li-ion.

    Pretty much every manufacturer has a hybrid so there must be some more cars with 20 or more of these same cells.
     
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  7. Carall

    Carall Member

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    If you are looking to get the most fresh NIMH battery modules than you have the only option which is Toyota Corolla up to 2022.
     
  8. StephenJ

    StephenJ Member

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    I'm having a hard time getting into about the Corolla pack. Do you happen to know if a 2020-2022 has enough blocks to fill a 2nd Gen Prius pack? I couldn't find specifics but saw somewhere they are only like 200v, so I'm thinking they have less blocks/cells?

    Do you happen to have some good specific information about that?

    Thanks!
     
  9. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    yes, it's essentially identical to the Gen 4 Prius NiMH pack. There's plenty of them here in the $750 ish range. Just be sure to verify it's an NiMH battery, not the Lithium

    Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market
     
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  10. MAX2

    MAX2 Member

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    Any modern hybrid Toyota car with a high-voltage NiMH battery uses the same modules - 7.2V 6.5Ah. In different cars, the number of modules is from 20 to 38 per battery.
    Prius Gen2 requires 28 modules.
     
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  11. StephenJ

    StephenJ Member

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    I just picked up a NiMh pack from a wrecked 2020 Corolla with 40k miles. I'm going to swap all the cells into my 2009 pack. Would it be good to flip the cells where it's all positive on one side and neg on the other then attach a separate wire to each side so that they all balance out over night?

    Or should I really take the time to order equipment to discharge it and recharge it?
     
  12. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    At 40k and 4 years miles the pack should be good to go. Just measure each module voltage and make sure that they are all within 0.1 volt. If so, just install the "new" modules.

    JeffD
     
    #12 jdenenberg, Aug 26, 2024
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2024
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  13. StephenJ

    StephenJ Member

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    I'm digging in! Pack looks brand new inside. The modules are all between 7.548-7.552 so a .004 spread. With them all being that close I think I'll skip messing with balancing them. @jdenenberg with that small of a spread it sounds like you agree, just move them over and go and not even worry with balancing....right?

    @TMR-JWAP do you happen to know if I can keep the ends on the modules and just move them all over together....or do I need to pull the ends and move them a little at a time?

    Man, I'm excited!
     

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  14. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    the end clamps are not interchangeable. Move just the modules to your Gen 2 pack
     
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  15. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    No, forget it. This process is called equalisation, not balancing. In essence, it doesn't do anything useful because there is just not enough potential difference between modules to move enough electrons to do anything of worth.
     
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  16. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    Order new from Alibaba
     
  17. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Please if you could explain what are the differences equalization and balancing. And why it's different for NiMH and Lithium.
     
  18. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    I don't know much about lithium, but from what little I know, what works for NiMH does not carry over to Lithium.
    Very simply, equalization is simply just trying to make the voltages of all modules the same.

    Balancing is the process of gently (over)charging a module (at 0.05C or 325 mA for Prius 6.5 mAh modules) so that each cell within reaches a fully charged state and then discharging down to a set voltage. This is repeated 3 (or so) times with each subsequent discharge to a lower voltage. Some advocate 1 volt per cell for the first discharge; 0.8 volts per cell for the second; and 0.5 volts per cell for the third discharge. Some say going lower than 1 v per cell will destroy the module, but my experience is that unless you go to at least 0.8 volts per cell you are not going to break up any crystalline formation on the battery plates and restore the battery to its optimal capacity.

    After doing a proper balancing you might find that the voltages of the modules have diverged wider. If this happens, it highlights the difference in the capacity of the modules. To make a successful battery repair all modules at the end of the balancing process should be within 0.1 volt of each other once the surface charge has been dissipated. Furthermore, after sitting for several days, they should not significantly self-discharge or diverge from each other.

    There are plenty of threads on PC with the details of how to do the balancing procedure.
     
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  19. StephenJ

    StephenJ Member

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    New what? NiMh cells that fit in a battery pack? Are they good and last a long time? If so and the pricing isn't bad I might order some for a 3rd Gen I can pick up real cheap that has a dead battery. But I've seen a lot of garbage on Alibaba, have these been tested well? I've never heard of them.
     
  20. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Thanks, I like the way you explained that and the concept works for both stick and pack based reconditioning. Only difference between the two, stick and pack conditioning are the charge / discharge machine settings.
    My take on your description here is that this part is the meat and potatoes.
    While this part is the gravy.