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What carbon path should we choose?

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    It's simply my question, directed to PC readers.

    On energy efficiency (buildings or vehicles, you choose) Current way is best or another way is better?

    On renewable E sources?

    On fossil-E energy sources?

    If the current paths are not good, how could we choose better paths? C-emission taxing or some other way?

    It may be that we have 20-40 years to set new paths. Or, to follow the current paths and see where they go. It is hard for me to confidently suggest new paths, so I turn to PC readers for their thoughts. No one in the public is obviously better poised to discuss this.
     
  2. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    I'm not sure what the present "paths" are. Every country and organization has a different path (even though they all send representatives to various summits). Likewise, the US political system changes paths depending on administrations. If we look to history of what has worked, I would say constructive economic policies (e.g. Montreal Protocols, Acid Rain economic techniques) work. Constructive means they remove externalities and policies explicitly set up to subsidize pollution/dumping/burning.
     
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I am looking for global summaries, with regional focus as needed. And I want FL to write it! Now!!

    What are recent developments in E efficiency, and where do future fruit hang low?

    What are recent trends in solar, wind, tidal and hydro, and where is the most progress being made? Should I add biomass and biofuel? Surely there are trends in nuclear.

    What are recent trends in coal, oil, methane and non-conventional fossils?

    Perhaps somewhere on the web, all of this already exists in nice form, and we could just look at pie charts for 1 to 4 decades. Then, we could move into the controversial area of externalities. The medical literature is getting frisky about PM 2.5 and heart health. Mercury freed from its coal prison is a human-mental issue. Everybody needs water, for something...

    So, where are we going on the present path and what deviations from that path are reasonable to consider over 1 to 4 decades? Nature, PNAS and Science are publishing this stuff. Somebody needs to do the legwork. Can't be me; I am myopic on terrestrial C cycling.

    Please note that, as stated, there are no pesky climate models invoked. Plenty of people are publishing about that; I hit the button for this thread with the hope that other things could be projected over 1 to 4 decades. If not, let's just let this thread die.

    :) after it dies, I will wonder later whether fossil-C emission controls will be successes like human sewage, non-selective pesticides, phosphorus in detergents, acid rain, and volatile fluorocarbons have been. Or, if in a class by itself, because the century-or-less scale harm is still hard to count. Environmentalists have never gone up against this much money before. Maybe increased atmospheric IR absorption over decades won't harm us, all that much.
     
  4. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

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    Part of your answer that you seek has already been defined: We all are carbon based, there is no way of getting around that. The other part of the answer is what you mentioned in your opening statement: all sources should be used. Carbon gets a bad reputation, but think of the air you breath, clean water you drink, and food you eat. All is made better and safer with the use of carbon. It is, after all an extremely versatile and useful element to use. Removing toxins, chemical impurities, make things taste better.

    Current paths are good, however, improvements are always forthcoming as technology evolves and mankind evolves harnessing this new technologies. This has the benefit of trickling down the the general populace.

    DBCassidy
     
  5. iClaudius

    iClaudius Active Member

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    We have to reduce US greenhouse gas emissions from carbon usage by 80% from 2007 numbers by 2050 (37 years) per the 20 years of climate change science from International Panel on Climate Change.

    First step for US is getting 50% more energy efficient similar to what Europe, Japan and other advanced nations are now. That is 70% due to oil used for transportation, 70% of the cars and gasoline.

    Easy to do over 12 years with progressively higher oil taxes with the proceeds used to fund alternative energy technology and energy efficiency. Retrofitting US buildings with US made energy efficiency products from solar panels to HVAC equipment to windows, shades, etc.

    For cars, everybody driving a Prius cuts gasoline usage 50%, EV/Hybrids will cut it 70%.

    Side bonus, we get to cut wasteful military spending by 50%, we eliminate our oil trade deficit, big boosts to US economy.

    We have one party that pushes the pro-American, pro-environment, anti-oil policies and another party (see VA example in threads) that taxes hybrids, cuts environmental regs, pushes for more defense spending, will not subsidize energy retrofitting and doesn't even believe there is a problem with the climate at all.
     
  6. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    I follow Science closely and while various policy writers and study groups get published, it's almost always along the lines of what the world "should" do. Nature, PNAS, and Science are really not good sources for figuring out what path will be taken. They are good for various science based group's proposals of what paths they like.

    My approach is pretty different. I use history and the success/failure of similar policies to try and figure out what works. Everything that has worked does so because the economics make it work or allow it to work. Oftentimes, it takes a lot of "noisy" legislative dead ends to be exhausted before some quietly effective legislation to be put in place that correctly addresses the economics. (For example, all the regulations for the utility industry and power plants is based on fossil or nuclear fueled plants. The requirement to provide a 24 hour base load at the plant makes a lot of renewable plants DOA, even though reliable power to the end users can be provided.) The science plays a secondary part.

    Most everything that I have studies seems to follow a path of very little happening until an economic inflection point is reached. At some point, it will be cheaper to use electricity made from "free" fuel instead of increasingly costly fossil fuel. Not much is going to happen till that point is reached. After, things will be amazingly fast. It will happen, but I have little ability to predict when. Hopefully in the next decade.
     
  7. David557

    David557 New Member

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    Some people are charging their cars by generating their own green energy and are even taking themselves off the grid. There are some great guides out there on how to do this, some of which are listed on this site DIY Energy Review if you’re interested?
     
  8. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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