What Did President Bush Gain...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Sep 13 2006, 03:37 PM) [snapback]319080[/snapback]</div>

Well, I'll be the first to admit I don't like the way he looks. Then again, I think Kerry is really a basset hound in disguise. So what do I know?

I would love an explanation of how what I posted was spinning and contorting facts. It was stated that we got hit multiple times under Clinton and haven't been hit since 9/11. The facts speak for themselves. I made no judgement of what the facts mean. They are what they are.

Spinning would have been attributing the 1993 WTC bombing to Bush I's policies, as Clinton had only been in office for a month. I didn't do that. Hell, I even included Timothy McVeigh who's a home-grown, all-American nutjob.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Sep 13 2006, 03:42 PM) [snapback]319080[/snapback]</div>

he looks sorta like my evil stepdad. now THAT is scary.

the question was not answered... the way he wanted it to be.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Sep 13 2006, 03:42 PM) [snapback]319080[/snapback]</div>

Somebody write this down before it disappears. Squid agrees with Jack!

I sincerely hope Jayman returns after his 'time out'. We'll all be the poorer if he doesn't.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Sep 13 2006, 10:52 AM) [snapback]319026[/snapback]</div>

Maybe you don't understand the game... the side who wins is not the one with the least penalties, its the one who achieved the objective.

In in country of peace and freedom, the objective is to prevent invasion and or deterioration of systems.

But games are parallels to live, thats why something deep down inside us likes to play them. Thats why as children we spar and play games in preparation for real life. Principles are principles and they apply in all regions, games as well as real life.
We learn what the rules for engagement are and which ones pay off and those that don't as we learn to grapple with human nature and learn others as well as ourselves needs, drives, egos, and securities.

Intelligence will show you that life is true on many levels, one level witnesses and tells secrets of the other.

If you have played many games at all... football, chess, hocky, baseball etc, you will find that those who only play defense lose the game and those that play offense gets two marks for the effort on one, because offense encompases defense all in the same move.

No one wants to delight in hurting and seeing others maimed and wounded, but when your at war, your at war, and although there are rules of engagement, if you are trying to hurt someone, then hurt them and don't play patticake with them.

thats been our problem in the past, we only want to scare them. Then when they don't scare, we want to tuck tail and run.

But sometimes the best way to help someone is to hurt them first.. especially when they are stubborn.

Thats why we rebuild countries we destroy.

As shepherd will take a sheep that is stubborn and keep wandering too close to the wolves and break its leg. Then he will carry the sheep untill it heals.
the sheep learns to trust and love the shepherd and realizes the breaking was done in love.
once released, it never wanders again.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Sep 13 2006, 03:13 PM) [snapback]319095[/snapback]</div>

I think the problem is that we are hurting the wrong people for the wrong reasons. This will hurt US in the end.

Damn it. I couldn't stay away...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Sep 13 2006, 11:33 AM) [snapback]319040[/snapback]</div>

Thats about the size of it... unless you are brainstorming to come up with ideas, criticizing only frustrates those who are trying to come up with a solution.

Most movies of destruction and peril show one person who is the complainer while others are trying to figure a way out.. He is the fearful one that takes "any" suggestion and feeds the 'what ifs" into it and only sees the negative. He cannot act in faith nor with gut feeling, it has to be spelled out to him and proven before he will trust it...... he is usually the guy that gets killed about 3/4 through the movie and the movie watchers cheers his extinquishment.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Sep 13 2006, 01:03 PM) [snapback]319091[/snapback]</div>

:lol: :lol:

Jaymen always has alot to say and we all are entitled to a bad day every once in a while.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Sep 13 2006, 04:18 PM) [snapback]319099[/snapback]</div>

Being contrary just to be contrary doesn't accomplish anything, I agree. But pointing out that there might be unseen consequences to a course of action, even if without an alternate plan in hand, is a useful tool in decision making.

As an normal, everyday American citizen, I don't have the stroke to directly influence our leaders. I can write to my congressman & senators to make my views known. I can protest when I think our leaders are off base. I can campaign for candidates I think would do a good job. I've done all of these.

Some of us feel like we were sold a bill of goods with the Iraq war. We have every right to question why we're there.

Just as you have every right to tell us to quit flappin' our gums. Ain't America great?

 

Thanks to Squid, Rufaro, hyo (sorry, u get only half a vote, fer obvious reasons) and my beloved wind<strike>bag</strike>strings for supporting jayman.

Would the four of us make a quartet, or WHAT???

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Sep 13 2006, 01:35 PM) [snapback]319110[/snapback]</div>

Your right, we should challenge our leaders directions since its so easy for them to get off the base they were elected for. The are supposed to be an extention of our will.

There are alot of supporters for the war, and most if not all of those supporters regret the lives lost and the price paid for a country that sometimes seems to have little gratitude.

I don't think we invaded Iraq for them.. it was for us... we are just fullfilling a moral obligation to not leave them in ruins and attempt to establish a base for democracy in that part of the fragile world.

Its a bigger task than anticipated and I don't think we calculated we would be fighting the whole middle east as it appears.

We now have to ask ourselves the question.. by invading further "like Iran", will that accomplish the objectives or only make the situation worse?

Thats always the question.

As far as being sold a bill of goods.. thats the medias fault and thats why we like to tell them as little as possible. They want to blowup, read into, sensationalize, and sit in the soldiers pocket with thier movie cameras as they fire thier weapon. Anything for a story and a buck.

Much of the expectations of the war was created by the media and not Bush himself.
Bush never attacked for oil, or WMD's or even Bin Ladin or Saddam. It was to launch a war against a movement that has gone on for long enough. It affects Africa and all parts of the world and it finally touched us so we did something about it in the most logical place at the time.

If all the world would join in and fight for themselves and for freedom, we would get this over with and be about our merry way, but I fear we are on the edge of Armeggedon and it will happen no matter what we do.

The question is how long can we hold it off? But sticking our head in the sand is the quickest way to get eaten by the wolf.

You might say "what wolf, who are you talking about"... a wolf is anyone or nation who has "no" interest for anyone but itself and wants to feed and grow strong by destroying and taking from the strength and lives of others rather than build thier own.

With the exception of Israel, that whole area is cursed and they have nothing but a desert and oil. They are a pile of mad angry ants that want to sting whoever they can touch.
They have no regard for any of the rest of the world but only to build thier own colony.
Hatred is inbred into them and anger, bitterness, resentment, and every evil character flows through thier viens. They are the wolves. And if you deny thier existence and stick your head in the sand, you will be eaten!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack Kelly @ Sep 13 2006, 02:11 PM) [snapback]319127[/snapback]</div>

:lol: :lol: :lol:
I don't even know what Jayman said, but I just know he's been cool in the past and always has good input... he may have had a bad day.. I know I do about every other one!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Sep 13 2006, 01:49 PM) [snapback]319115[/snapback]</div>

Evan has a good point about N Korea. Although I consider them a more noble race than the Islamic bunch, they are just as dangerous.

I don't see them killing for the same reasons.. they are more on a survival mode, but with questionable tactics and styles we don't adhere to. Islam is religion gone bad. The epidemy of false religion who kill the good thinking they are doing godservice all the while they are feeding hatred and bitterness etc.

It amazes me how different someone can be and still be of the human race.

they have same body as we, but they don't have the same heart.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Sep 13 2006, 09:03 AM) [snapback]318860[/snapback]</div>

But Tony, you could still agree... I directed the waabulance comment to the "Extreme Lefties" :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Sep 13 2006, 04:33 PM) [snapback]319137[/snapback]</div>

Boy, according to you this is going to be a long, long war. I assume you are equating islam with terrorism. Fortunately you are full of it. The percentage of terrorists within a given country are so small that military intervention accomplishes nothing. Only law enforcement can have any effect.

With regards to armaggedon; its religion precisely what's getting us killed. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

The percentage of terrorists within a given country are so small that military intervention accomplishes nothing. Only law enforcement can have any effect.

Hmm, :huh: I dont get it?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Sep 13 2006, 05:12 PM) [snapback]319159[/snapback]</div>

I know you don't.

 

You would need Military intervention along with the local police ie. working together to rid the area of terrorist groups.. The military is far better trained & has better weapons than most 3rd world police dept.'s.. <_<

Becides alot of the 3rd world police forces are etheir corrupt or have a few officers that are corrupt and may even help the terrorists..

So yes you would need Military support, maybe not 30,000, but two platoons should work.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack Kelly @ Sep 13 2006, 02:11 PM) [snapback]319127[/snapback]</div>

Canadian Jay
Come back and play

 

[/quote]Only law enforcement can have any effect.