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What does 50% battery life mean in daily use?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Otium, Jul 6, 2021.

  1. Otium

    Otium New Member

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    I will apologize in advance for the noob question, but I am a noob and after a couple of fruitless hours of searching online I’ve decided to ask here. Mind you, I may have seen the answer and just not recognized it for what it was. This is my first hybrid.

    Background: new to me 2014 Prius Two with 65k. It pretty much sat for the last year and was owned by a gent I know at the retirement home. I understand sitting isn’t good so I got it tested by a highly recommended shop locally.

    It has 50% left in the hybrid battery and has 3 groups (6 cells) that need replacing. The owner was great showed me the live read outs from my car and pretty much lived up to his reputation. For $800 he will clean the battery ventilation system, replace the cells with new ones, and carefully balance/optimize (or whatever the word he used was) everything. Alternatively he is willing to install a new battery if I want, but recommended just the fix and milking the battery for another 50k or so.

    So here is where I would appreciate input. What does 50% battery life remaining mean in a real world sense? Second, for that price is it worth just the little repair job or sucking it up for a new battery entirely?

    Separately, I already have the long list of maintenance items I’ve already stated on myself including the EGR and OCC, but I don’t trust myself enough to I want to mess with high voltage so I’ll pay to have that prt done.
     
  2. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Run. Don’t walk, run.
     
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  3. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Was the hybrid system throwing battery codes or performing badly?

    50% battery life on a high voltage battery is a pure guess, especially if it has three modules that need replacement because they are out of tolerance. Something does not add up with the diagnosis.

    The reality is Toyota has no metric to determine battery life. There is a third party phone app called Dr. Prius that attempts to make a guess by having the driver fully charge it and then measure how long it takes to discharge. It is of questionable utility even if all the modules were close to each other.
     
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  4. Otium

    Otium New Member

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    The battery isn’t throwing any codes but it seemed to charge and discharge very rapidly (based on my whole couple days of having it which really means nothing). Since this is my first hybrid experience I was researching the forums and YouTube videos. I did use the Dr Hybrid app and what it said lines up with what the mechanic said. That said, I didn’t occur to me that the app had no real value or might be a “joke”.

    In fairness to the mechanic, I asked him how much life was left in it and he did say it wasn’t that easy so I asked for a “ballpark” guess and he obliged.
     
    #4 Otium, Jul 7, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
  5. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    What did he use to test the battery? Is it at 50% charge? How did he determine that
    6 cells need replacing? Driving it will charge the battery, and depending on the real condition of
    the hybrid battery those cells will be okay. It will be low since it's been sitting for so long.
    How is the 12v battery? You may need to replace that one because it will probably have
    completely discharged from sitting for a year.
    $800 seems like a lot just to replace those few cells.
    With only 65,000 miles on it, it might be a bit early to clean the EGR system, but it wont' hurt. (y)
    And if you can do that, you can do the hybrid battery yourself. For $1600 you can get new cells.

    Charge the 12v battery, test it. If it tests good, then drive the car for a while so the hybrid battery can
    be used, charged and discharged. Then test the battery again. You might find you'll be okay for a long time.

     
    #5 ASRDogman, Jul 7, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
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  6. Otium

    Otium New Member

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    Two different places did recommend I replace the 12v before winter but it was acceptable for now. Previous owner was good about running it every week or so. It is a 2019 Toyota battery but I don't know if the 12v is transferrable. When I get parts at the dealer I'll ask.

    As for determining the 6 cells, he basically had an app that looked at the voltage across the battery and showed me the 3 groups that were obviously fluctuating. I am not technically savvy enough to explain exactly what I saw.

    The electric water pump, do you just run those until they die or does anyone do a pre-emptive change? I'll have everything off this weekend and it won't hurt me to replace it either (except in the wallet).

    I like the advice about letting the traction battery just run for a bit. I also agree that for 1600 it isn't that much more than 800 and I would prefer new batteries entirely if necessary. The only catch it there are so many vendors to choose from but I have time. I saw Green Bean has a fully installed one for 1649 but it is just reconditioned. I'll have to read the fine print on the lifetime warranty as well.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i wouldn't do anything until you get a trouble light and corresponding battery code.

    it is more than likely that all your car needs is to be driven regularly, and everything will balance out on its own
     
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  8. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    wouldn’t that be covered under Toyota’s warranty with cel pretaining to bad hv bat?
     
  9. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    New for the hv battery means new cells at least and any other option is a waste of money unless you just want to flip a non-operable car. If and when it provides a battery fail code, do something about it. Assuming the car was run weekly as you note, there is little concern about non-activity. As Grit mentions, it is likely still under factory warranty but Toyota will not change a good battery. A third party working on that battery voids the warranty.

    The truth of the matter is batteries are the least of the issues on this generation of Prius. Piston rings causing huge oil consumption, head gaskets leaking, brake by wire systems and inverters failing are too common. All of these are all more expensive and more likely to strand you than a hv battery. The egr system is a unique first time design in a Prius and has flaws as well. The intake manifold fills with oil from the pcv system. At least those two are more diy maintenance oriented.

    The good news is your car is low miles. Most of the big problems show around 150k miles. Changing oil at 5k intervals, avoiding excessive idle states with the ac on, being aware of warranty and customer service programs can all make a decent car last many more years without issue.
     
    #9 rjparker, Jul 7, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
  10. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Yes, it means nothing unless you can say how you measured "very rapidly." In steady state freeway driving you will see the battery go up or down a bit. But if you go uphill or accelerate a lot it will drain down quickly -- as in a few minutes. Same thing if you go down a steep hill...it will charge up quickly.

    (This applies to the regular hybrid batteries. Plug in hybrids have a much bigger battery and it takes a lot more to charge or discharge them)

    Mike
     
  11. Otium

    Otium New Member

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    Thank you Grit. I checked at the dealership in the way home and battery has a warranty until December.

    RJParker, that list is depressingly long. I might have to drive it for a year and, if I decide I like the platform enough I might use it as a trade-in. Too bad though as it is my favorite body style of all the Prii.

    Thank you all for the tips and being the voice of reason. I do get carried away at times.
     
  12. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    In your shoes, I’d buy a obd2 Bluetooth reader and get the free dr Prius android app, observe the real time driving voltage of the battery pack. There is a designated gauge that will tell you the voltage difference from the highest and lowest cell voltage while ready. If your pack voltage difference is within .2 volts most of the time, then your battery is still in good shape. Mine is a 2012 and still within .2 volts as I’m driving. My pack averages 67 mpg from the last 1,500 miles driven so my pack is still good, knock on wood. But adjust the fan temp on the app so the fan kicks on to speed 1 at 96F. Many people leave the default value as it is and their screenshots on here are always mid to upper 100F temps. Don’t be like them and prematurely kill the pack.

    always check for the easy and no to low cost remedies first.
     
    #12 Grit, Jul 7, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i would let it set for 5 more months and hope to get a code
     
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  14. Otium

    Otium New Member

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    Found the app and already bought the OBD plug. I’ll give it a shot.

    Separately, just cleaned the fan. Dirty but not clogged. Sparkly white now!
     
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