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What effect is the spoiler having on MPG?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by windstrings, Dec 3, 2005.

  1. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Errr, that's Brian's spoiler NOT the stock spoiler that Tumbleweed was testing.
     
  2. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    right... maybe I was mistaken.. I thought we were trying to figure out the effects of brians spoiler that tumbleweed tested..... is someone testing or wanting to test the stock one?.. how would you get it off to test without?...
    I figure that one is a norm that was intended to stay without major modifications.
     
  3. NuShrike

    NuShrike Active Member

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    The Wikipedia says it's a Kammback. Maybe that's what you're looking for.
     
  4. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    Looks like some confusion entered when the stock spoiler got mentioned....
    We are basically trying to figure out how to improve upon toyotas design.... taking off the stock spoiler is not an option in my book at least....

    Sorry for the confusion Tideland prius, I didn't know if you were referring to me or someone elses statement
    According to the pics.. Brians spoiler looks about 1.5 to 2 inches thick.. I was questioning whether that would even do anything... it looked more like a nice rain gutter to me. I'm not degrading it in any way..... just trying to figure if its worth the trouble to modify and add it... seems the results are sooooo close that it could be doing literally nothing!.... good or bad!.... The placebo effect can be very powerful and spread across masses of people....
    Makes for good conversation.... and if your someone who has already bought one.... as long as its not hurting and you think its helping then thats good... because its not ugly... it actually looks nice!

    I just started the thread because I was thinking of getting one myself.

    Even if the MPG is degraded a tiny bit, if stability is truely improved, its worth it.
     
  5. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    If I understand aerodynamicist Wunibald Kamm correctly (see NuShrike's Kammback link), a small change in the direction of the airflow could effect a large change in the following bubble of air. Changing the bubble could change the lift acting on the car, and thus the handling and sensitivity to crosswinds. It's not like the spoiler is doing any 'pushing down' on the car and is in imminent danger of falling off if you go too fast. The Prius no doubt spent considerable time in the wind tunnel, to minimise drag, but perhaps lift and wind vectors were not addressed as thoroughly.
     
  6. mehrenst

    mehrenst Member

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    You all might want to take a read on this page which discusses the Gurney Flap (aka Wickerbill for the NASCAS types). This is a small "flap" positioned at the rear of the spoiler. The result is to create a small separation bubble to form behnd the "flap" which forces the air flowing over the top of the wing to raise slightly thereby increasing downforce and planting the rearend more firmly.

    If you look at the Prius cross-section, it is a wing and, IMO, even thought the BT spoiler is very small it would effectively cause the airflow at the rear of the car to push up and increase downforce. Call it what you like, mini-spoiler, spoiler, etc., it still looks like a Gurney Flaf or Wickerbill to me. B)
     
  7. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    Yes, confusion certainly crept in, and I was trying to *straighten
    it out* with my first post. Everyone must be too inured to the
    BT spoiler ads plastered all over the header of EVERY page we read.
    .
    However, it installs too far forward to act as a Gurney flap.
    It would be nice if the BT folks would chime in here and actually
    describe the design basis, please.
    .
    _H*
     
  8. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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    Airflow and pressure is truely amazing.... I confess to that everytime I see a big boeing 747 lazily grazing over the sky!
    How can all that weight fly?
     
  9. mehrenst

    mehrenst Member

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    I disagree.

    Here's a Stanford Paper that discusses miniature trailing edge effectors (Gurney Flaps). Obviously, the Gurney Flap is designed to provide more lift at the rear to increase the downforce on the front of the car (its placed on the lower plane of the wing). But by placing one on the upper plane it would increase the downforce on the rear wheels. If you look at Figure 24 you will see that there is a fairly large area behind the Flap that is out of the airflow. I suspect that the dead space behind the BT mini-spoiler covers part of the original spoiler which doesn't interfere with the additional downforce.
     
  10. MtnTraveler

    MtnTraveler New Member

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    It may look lazy, but it's going over 150 knots!