What I don't like about the Prius Prime

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by cproaudio, Mar 23, 2016.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    people keep saying that 'they are hearing' and 'there are signs' etc. about the price of the prime. are your imaginations running wild?

    i think we'll see a decent amount of sales, and yes, price will have a lot to do with it. but i haven't heard/read anything, except tideland telling us that toyota told him they knew they had to be aggressive.
     
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  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Just to be clear, I wasn't told directly. I heard it from one of the other Prius Experts who did ask Toyota at NYC. (@Paradox I think?). Credit where credit is due.
     
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  3. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    Toyota should be especially grateful that after an initial flurry of disliked features, most people seem to be finding more to like about the Prime.
     
  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That's the normal response we see with each new offering. Not all the people...
     
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Happens all the time.

    2010: Flying bridge
    2012: Vehicle Proximity Notification System
    2012: PiP's 11 miles range
    2015: Gen 4
    2016: Prime
    2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016: Turn signal mirrors
     
  6. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Most here have no clue how major of a "much ado about nothing" situation there was for the Classic Prius (2001-2003) with the shifter. OMG! People went nuts over the fact that you had to pull it toward you rather than downward. The outlash was incredible. Yet, almost no one remembers that now.
     
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  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Cloud Watcher

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    Yes but are we becoming increasingly numb? When I first saw the real, over-the-hedge fuzzy shots of the 2016, back in September, it was "Oh no...". Then the on the road, partially uncovered front and rear shots, the plastic 17" rims, more "Oh no". Then the interior was unveiled, it became "I don't care".
     
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  8. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    Also, how much hell was raised recently when PC Chatters found out that Gen 4's c-pillar is piano black, not going to be painted!:)
    Well, you can't have a "floating roof" if you paint that!
     
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  9. Vike

    Vike Active Member

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    Given where high-end Gen4 LB pricing is already and the cost of the battery pack, it seemed unlikely from the get-go that the Prime could beat Volt pricing by much. But add in the pricier lighting arrays front and back and oddly sculptured rear window set in a carbon fiber hatch (all models), plus the optional massive Teslaesque central display on the car at the unveiling, plus the markup precedent on the old PiP, and it's very hard to see how this vehicle comes in at a competitive price without Toyota effectively subsidizing it. Since doing so would only cannibalize profitable high end LB sales, I don't see that happening. The work that Toyota did with all those exclusive features, plus the choice of words in the unveiling event about this "premium" version, made it pretty clear that value wasn't going to be a selling point for this model.

    So no, I don't think our imaginations have been running wild in terms of anticipating a fairly hefty price for the Prime. Perhaps Toyota product planners' were in terms of the market's appetite for their gilded lily. We'll find out later this year,

    All is not lost, of course - if gas prices remain cheap and Toyota wants to move lots of 4Runners, we could be seeing some very aggressive rebates on high-mpg models to facilitate those high-profit truck/suv sales. Pre-ordering a Prime would not be a great idea.
     
    #189 Vike, Apr 22, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2016
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  10. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Keep in mind 65% of PHEV were sold in CA last year, and sales probably relate to free HOV stickers. I see as the Prime going after share of CA commuters (Volts/CMax/Fusion). Why buy Prime over Volt? do not know but Volt is plug-in heavy: gotta want to charge up (some love that, but not me so much) and Prius is less demand of charging all the time and good range, probably more room. If your key indicator of success is trying to maximize time spent plugging in, then Volt wins.

    PS- I sort of agree with Felt, I've previously said Prime needs CA HOV stickers or its toast. But I think Prime probably gets its toast buttered with free HOV in CA. But I think Volt is near-toast without free CA HOV too.
     
    #190 wjtracy, Apr 22, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2016
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  11. Vike

    Vike Active Member

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    Well, no - just the opposite, really. The Volt can carry a good deal more energy away from a charging session than the Prime, so won't have to charge nearly as often.

    You seem to be saying something like "I'd prefer the Prime because I won't have to spend so much time charging." This seems a really strange argument to make - and what the heck does "plug-in heavy" mean? The whole point of a PHEV is AER - if you don't care to plug in, you don't buy one. As we've discussed previously, there are use cases that favor the Prime, but they're pretty narrowly drawn. You sound more like a customer for a straight-up hybrid like the Prius LB, which is fine - but why would such a buyer even consider the Prime or the Volt?
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i don't disagree with your logic. i was simply saying i haven't heard or read anything from toyota, which is what i was replying to. insinuating that toyota stated the price will be high is just spreading rumor.
    sating that you think the price will be high is an opinion, and that's one reason we're here.
    he's talking about hov stickers.
     
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    The argument in favor of having a 5th seat has been somewhat self-deprecating by claiming it would only be needed for short distances but saying more EV is also needed.

    This morning, Consumer Reports added this to fuel the debates with their comparison review of Volt & Prius: "The Prius clearly has the roomier back seat. It’s open and airy by comparison, with wide seats, better foot space, a livable amount of head room, and a relatively hospitable middle seat."
     
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  14. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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  15. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    That's what I just said (less authoritatively) "probably more room than Volt" in Post #190. I was struggling to answer Felt's question why would anyone buy a Prime over Volt? More room and less need to charge all the time.

    Some would say they *want* to charge ALL or MOST the time, some see total elimination of petroleum use as the whole purpose of Plug_ins, so they can have at it with Volt if they so desire.
     
    #195 wjtracy, Apr 22, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2016
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  16. Vike

    Vike Active Member

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    See, this is getting back to my problem with your original post (and no, I was not commenting on HOV sticker, disregarded that since I'm not in CA, though I understand its importance in that market). The Volt has no more need to charge all the time; it is able to charge more. You can disregard that as you like, but it is definitely not an advantage of the Prime that you can only charge less. It's got less AER, and that is a pure downside, whatever may be on the other side of the ledger to balance it. Claiming that there is some advantage to a PHEV having less AER just doesn't make any sense. Buyers who really feel that not plugging in is an advantage can maximize that advantage by buying a non-plugin like the Prius LB, not by buying a Prime instead of a Volt.
    Yeah, but that's completely off-topic, isn't it? It's obvious from the mention of the middle seat that they're referring to the LB, not the Prime (unsurprising, since only the LB is available for reviewers). I'll admit it's likely this means that two passengers in the back of the Prime will be more comfortable than two in the back of the Volt, but that's going to depend on exactly how the Prime's center console affects hip room, etc., and it may be a while before we get the definitive word on that.

    Regardless, the availability of any middle seating versus no middle seating could be a meaningful advantage under some circumstances. My sentiments on this are unchanged - the Prime took the LB's unassailable advantage in rear seat accommodations vs. the Volt and turned it into a debatable point, and I think whatever weight savings blah blah blah they might have achieved thereby aren't worth it. Whatever the pros and cons, I don't believe it was strictly necessary, so can only regard it as ill-considered.
     
    #196 Vike, Apr 22, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2016
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  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think it was necessary, because they didn't give prime due consideration when they designed th gen 4 chassis layout. many of us asked where they were going to fit a battery when the gen 4 came out, and now we know. it wasn't a concern. be that as it may, no matter how much we argue it here, it's not going to change, and sales will be what they will be. i'm still stuck on price more than anything.
     
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  18. KrPtNk

    KrPtNk Active Member

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    It is still possible, although not likely, that the prototype Prime we saw has a battery different from what the production version will have. Also, unlike the prototype, the production version is likely to have an inverter to allow the car to function as an emergency generator. I say this because I have written to Toyota and suggested it. My influence on the corporation scares me sometimes.

    I am trying to keep hope alive for you Bisco.
     
    #198 KrPtNk, Apr 22, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
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  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    thanks man, from your lips to yoshi toyoda's ears.:cool:
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    maybe they'll build me a special 6 kWh prime.;)
     
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