What I don't like about the Prius Prime

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by cproaudio, Mar 23, 2016.

  1. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    Tideland Prius said: "The 2G and 3G Prius batteries are located in the trunk, behind the rear seats. (This is why there is the underfloor bin - to create a flat floor)

    I accept your statement ... truthfully, I never saw the battery. I think I assumed it was beneath the seat because of the vent on the right side of the right rear seat.
     
  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Well, a visual still helps I think :). So even though you accept, here's some visuals to help place things in and around the Prius. The Prius c has the battery beneath the rear seat (and so does the HiHy and RXh). Their vents are actually facing the front seats so you don't see them at all.


    Gen 3 with rear floor and underfloor bin removed.

    Gen3.jpg


    Here's a photo with everything removed so you can see how the vent from the side of the rear seat links up to the battery. Judging by the vent placement, it's a Gen 2. (Gen 3 is lower down, closer to the wheel well). For future reference to anyone who is looking at this thread, the top centre (ish) shows the placement of the 12V battery (so it's on the passenger side, near the taillight, beneath the floor).

    Gen2.jpg

    Here's a Gen 2. That black plastic is the exhaust vent (see above for complete image)

    Gen2a.jpg

    Here's a Gen 2 cutaway. The rear cargo floor is in place.

    Gen2b.jpg
     
    #502 Tideland Prius, Jun 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
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  3. Vike

    Vike Active Member

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    What on earth are you talking about? I'm no noob, and my comment very specifically refers to the electric motor of the i-MiEV, which is a BEV, not a hybrid - there is no engine. Unless I assumed you were some kind of ignoramus who actually thought there was an engine in the i-MiEV, it made more sense to read you as being loose with power-plant language, which I saw no reason to be a jerk about (little did I know you felt no such compunction).

    My original comment was just an (obviously failed) attempt at a playful remark in support of the occasional virtues of aft-placed power-plants, noting that my own car's underbody battery pack and rear motor made me appreciative of your suggestion. I sincerely did not realize that your "rear mounted engine" query was a hair-splitting snarky rebuff to my comments as opposed to lack of familiarity with the configuration of the (let's face it) rather obscure i-MiEV. But then, why would I have expected that, since at no point did I ever conflate motors and engines? Why dis another forum member for no reason at all? Tacking on that "noob" raised this from run of the mill misunderstanding to condescending BS.

    So thanks for the overall joy of this exchange, which was about as much fun as explaining a damned joke. I'll try to keep your attitude in mind going forward, and just assume snark from the get-go.
     
    #503 Vike, Jun 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
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  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    This side discussion started with me talking about battery and engine arrangement on a PHEV. In that context, engine meant ICE. Which has been the norm for these discussions, and I try to stick with them.

    I got that your response was a playful remark. I noted the smiley. I responded with a playful remark of my own, with smileys, continuing with the use of the engine term, joking that your BEV had an ICE. Your response to that seemed serious, and I thought you had conflated engine with motor. I was only trying to clarify what I meant with the use of the term engine. It did not occur to me that the misunderstanding was over the humor, and not the technical terms. "Noob" was used in jest, with attending smiley, to stick with the playfulness of the exchange. It was never meant as an insult.
     
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  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Just for future reference, "noob" is always taken as an insult.
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    unless you're a self proclaimed noob.
     
  7. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    noob backwards is boon. Just an observation. Like Evian backwards is Naive. (and so is buying filtered tap water in little plastic bottles....)
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i get the big bottles. :p
     
  9. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    Nothing wrong with big jugs IMO. :sneaky:
     
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  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    My friends and I laugh at the people using noob as an insult in the game we play, but we can get brutal with each other.
     
  11. Vike

    Vike Active Member

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    No problem. Emoticons only go so far, so sorry if I mis-read and/or over-reacted.
     
  12. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    Tideland Prius - Those are great pictures and really explain something I did not know. Thanks.

    I could not help but think, space for the battery, a spare tire, and plenty of luggage space. Very efficient.

    Is the battery that much bigger in the Prime to preclude space for a spare?
     
  13. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    The Prime's battery effectively takes the entire space that the Gen 2 or 3 batteries take, plus the space all the way to the back of the cargo area, plus some height.

    I mean, it's about 8 times the capacity in kWh (although a different chemistry).
     
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  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    NP. To me it is a silly sounding word, and I forgot others can have a different view on it.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    are you familiar with the pip battery layout, which is half the size of prime?
     
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    It's a very efficient car - both in fuel usage and in space. The Gen 2 was the prime example with limo-like rear legroom, seating for 5, tons of near-hand storage space for the driver/front passenger and tons of cargo space.

    The Gen 4's Li-Ion battery is 0.7kWh in capacity IIRC. The Prime is 8.8 kWh. For comparison, the old Prius (Gen 2 and 3) NiMH battery was 1.3kWh and the Prius Plug-in Hybrid (2012-2015) Li-Ion battery is 4.4kWh. Here are some photos :)

    (man, googling Prius plug-in hybrid shows a lot of modified Prius with aftermarket batteries!)

    Here's a Prime battery

    Prime_battery.jpg

    Here's the placement in the car

    Prime_cutaway.jpg

    Now obviously we don't have pictures of the Prime's battery in real life yet (wasn't going to disassemble the NYC one lol)

    Here's a picture of the prototype PiP with the 3 separate Li-Ion packs and the raised trunk floor (2"). It actually had a larger capacity than the production PiP (can't remember exact but it was 5 or 6 kWh)

    PiPprototype.jpg


    Here's the production version of the PiP (2012-2015) with a single large Li-Ion battery pack (but capacity is smaller than the prototype above because Toyota thought cost and cargo space was important) and a flat floor.

    Toyota_Prius_Plugin_Boot.jpg



    For those who are wondering "why didn't Toyota take advantage of TNGA?", well aside from the "how do you know?", here are some numbers I'm allowed to share

    The Prime's battery...
    • Capacity has gone up by 100% (8.8kWh vs. 4.4kWh)
    • Only gone up in 60% in weight
    • Volume has only gone by up 80%

    So look at the photo of the PiP above and think about a battery that is 80% larger AND has a more intrusive rear suspension but still managed to stay in the trunk with a 3" rise vs. a 2" rise for the PiP (See 2nd picture above).
     
    #516 Tideland Prius, Jun 22, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
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  17. KrPtNk

    KrPtNk Active Member

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    @Tideland Prius, thanks for these posts clarifying the battery and its placement in the various generations of the Prius. Your explanations are both easy to understand and informative.
     
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  18. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    Tideland Prius - Again, great photos.

    The more I read (and see) and understand about the battery size and weight, and the impact (especially the size) the more I realize that Tesla has the right battery answer ...... flat, beneath the floor. No penalty to luggage space; no penalty to seating; and great benefits to the center of gravity. But I cannot afford a Tesla S!

    I wonder if the Tesla 3 will have the low, flat, beneath the floor battery? Anyone know for sure?
     
  19. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Yes, it will.
    It is the positioning that gives the most benifits. Both for capacity, safety and handling. The only drawback is the ingress/egress is a bit tougher.

    It has also been a configuration that has been played with before Tesla, but never in a mass produced vehicle.

    Part of the issue is, you can't do that easily when you have both a gas engine and electric motor.
    When you have an engine, you need a bulkier transmission, exhaust system, etc.
    I would expect the eventual BEV from Toyota to use a skateboard design.
     
  20. Vike

    Vike Active Member

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    I appreciate that Americans might not have thought the i-MiEV was mass-produced (as it sold here in laughably small numbers), but globally speaking it was. And while done in a far more compact package, the concept was the same as Tesla's - put the battery under the car, not in the trunk.
    [​IMG]
     
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