What I don't like about the Prius Prime

Mirai is a long-term project, an eventual choice for ordinary consumers. Obviously, there are efficiency & cost upgrades needed to achieve that appeal and fueling infrastructure to address. Current buyers know that, but also know there are early adopters and aren't concerned. Being in at the very beginning, way ahead of everyone else is a draw. After all, I was pretty darn excited about Prius way back in 1999, but knew it would take at least a decade before mainstream interest was even realistic to talk about. Now at the dawn of the gen-4 rollout, we are still not there yet for competing with traditional vehicles... getting mighty close though. Darn low gas prices.

 

You are looking at it from cost-effectiveness. That does not make sense. For my $100 per month of driving, completely eliminating that (not possible), I would have to keep Prime for 10 years for price difference (after govt grant) to make it dead even with regular Prius.

So what they did in loaded Prime vs loaded Prius
1. Faster (more battery power)
2. Cool EV mode
3. Cool adaptive LED headlights with partial adaptive light blockage for highbeams (most Lexus vehicles dont have this year, RX just got it).
4. 11.6" screen with all new software, graphics.
5. Mirai seats up front (higher quality, more expensive looking)
6. Limo style buckets at the back.
7. Cool Solar charging mode, cool solar roof.
8. More premium looks on the outside that look better and differentiate it from more common Prius.
9. Other cool tech like CFRP hatch, bubble rear window, heat pump, smartphone control, etc.

None of this is cost effective. It is about making it desirable. Like how people buy $40k CT200h while its very closely related and well equipped cousin is $20k. Or why anyone buys i8 with paltry non excusable 15 mile range for average of $150k - with waiting times since they cant produce enough. M3 is better car for half of the money but it is nowhere as desirable.

This is why Tesla sells well for EV - it is freaking cool, not because people buying $100k vehicle want to save on (almost) cheapest gas on planet. (Or in Norway simply because it is cheaper than 520d due to taxes .

Again, they are not targeting some wild sales goals... just around 8% of Prius production. That is about the ratio of V6 and V8 engines in Camry and GS (when it was available) as extra options.

 

Those who have bucket behinds. I don't know how many that is because I try not to stare.

 

Well thats only 3000 people in 2-3 years in California and I would guess because they want to have something cool and something that other people dont have plus it is really super cheap lease. From Toyota side, they have to start somewhere.

Well, look at it this way - Toyota produced around 1.3m hybrids across the world in 2015. That number will likely go to at least 1.5m-1.6m in 2016 due to new Prius and Rav4 Hybrid that is worldwide vehicle (waiting list in UK is now 5 months, Toyota expected 50% of all Rav4 sales in hybrid but ended up with 70%). 2017 might be even better with C-HR likely doing 150k in hybrid sales alone. At the same time, they produce around 800k diesels, to be increased to 1m by 2018.

So hybrids are here right now in Toyota world, they made it - thats around 15% of global Toyota sales which include a lot of 3rd world countries where this technology is way too expensive. Realistically, without China, India, Brasil, South Africa getting a lot richer, and fuel prices in USA, Russia going up by 4x, we will never see more than 20%/2m sales in Toyota world simply because this is extra cost option.

If everyone had same hybrids as Toyota, we would see a lot more hybrids in the mainstream. Hyundai seems to be pushing it finally in volume vehicles, they are targeting small volumes initially I wonder if that will blow out later on. Honda is doing half a?sed job so far, only in Japan they are pushing it.

 

you maybe right. it's just not for me personally.

1) don't care
2) ditto
3) ditto
4) base has 7"
5) don't care
6) ditto
7) not here
8) i prefer the prius sz lights
9) like the heat pump.

 

I know... but hey, wanna spend extra $5k for cool Prius? Makes sense. A lot of People like loaded, cost effectiveness be damned.

There is also more base equipment than regular Prius, like heated seats and TSS P as more things to point out when customer finds out much larger price.

 

i can't wait!

 

to be disappointed about base price?

 

that's the question, isn't it?

 

lets set the rules right now, what was Pip1 price base? And what would be acceptable for Pip2 base?

 

that sounds good, but that puts it $2500. above base volt. will that work?

 

which price exactly? I did not know Pip1 base price.

 

$32,500. with 2500 federal tax credit, 30k. new volt is 33k less 7k tax credit. pip 2 gets $4,000. credit so $28,500. vs 26k for volt.

 

I am thinking $35k base price minimum for pip2.


What was the base equipment, did it have led headlights, heated seats, radar cruise control, etc? What was loaded max price?

 

max was around 40k. base got heated seats and mirrors. advanced got power seat, 7" split screen, remote phone charging app, pleather, some high tech stuff.
i really think 35k is too high, pip1 was about 3k more than prius 3.

of course, state rebates, like cali, have a bigger effect, but new pip is 50 state.

 

With double the battery and more standard stuff i think 35k is going to be likely. BUT pricing is set by marketing team based on their desired sales performance. Pricing is NOT set based on factory price x fixed margin. So there is a chance that they will set lower price based on their sales goals.

Here Prius is not considered core vehicle by our Toyota so we get realistic pricing based on fixed margin and not sales goals, so our G4 price went up by $4.5k by average (which is likely increase in the cost of product x margins x taxes), however it did not go up significantly in the USA.

I mean Volt with tax break is same price as Prius III. It is already a better deal than Prius. I dont see how can PIP2 compete base price wise with Volt when regular Prius cant.

 

I f they are talking about depreciation, it is a problem with all plug ins now, and may not be a reflection of the car itself. The various incentives to get new ones on the road, lowers the effective new price, which lowers the price of used ones.

Only for plug in hybrids. The ones for BEVs and FCEVs are still around.

Any specifics on who, where, model, and why people aren't plugging it? The incentives for the PiP in California brought the price down to that of the hybrid. With the hybrid no longer getting HOV access, getting a PiP and not plugging in was deemed worth it for a few with long commutes.The Volt didn't qualify for the HOV stickers its first year, and had the lower MPG. There simply wasn't much of a reason to not plug in.

I don't doubt some don't plug in their PHEV. I just suspect some sources over stress the numbers.

Which plug in hybrid has the highest worldwide sales.

I agree about making the car more desirable in order to boost sales. I, and likely others, just think Toyota added luxury and features to the Prime in trying to add that desirability was at the expense of what made the Prius model desirable to begin with.

The Prius is a great all around car in terms of price, fuel efficiency, and functionality for families that haven't reach the requirement of a minivan. The gen4 improved that all around package by addressing the major complaint of the car with a more dynamic driving experience. A goal of the PiP was to keep the EV battery from not throwing that all around package out of whack.

Now we have the Prime. I'm reserving judgement on the lost cargo space until the production model arrives, since much of the Prius hauling versatility is because it is a hatchback, and the Prime still is. The fifth seat going makes this car a non-starter for many families now. Then the luxury appointments and features are going to upset the price portion of the package. The performance improvements of the gen4 might be lost also. It has more power, but is also heavier, and much of that weight is behind the rear axle, where it will affect nimbleness.

The gen1 Volt used luxury and features to increase desirability, because it had a real expensive battery back driving the price up. The battery technology has made big strides in improving the cost since then. Which isn't driving up the car's price as much in the gen2, so GM can drop the luxury and extra features to price the car at a point where it will attract more buyers. It appears Toyota is adding those bits just for the sake of raising the price. Yeah, the Prime's battery is twice the size of the PiP's, but it is half the size of the gen2 Volt's. It should cost Toyota half the cost of what GM pays for a battery. It is definitely less than twice the cost of the PiP pack was back then.

 

agreed, it will be difficult. that's the hard part, wondering what toyota sales goals are. why would they call it prime, if they don't want to sell as many as possible? do they think a name will help sell it? i think it's a stupid name. i'm sticking with pip.

 

Gen 2 is PiPP

 

i like it.