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What is the Future of Prius v (yet again for people, it is a lowercase v for the Prius v wagon)

Discussion in 'Prius v Main Forum' started by mrmajors, May 24, 2016.

  1. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I hauled my entire family and all our stuff for two weeks for 3000 miles across the Midwest in our Mazda5 last June.
     
  2. Offline

    Offline Active Member

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    I think what the past few posts in this thread shows is that there is no one perfect vehicle or perfect type of vehicle for all people and for people in various stages in their lives. People simply have different needs which is why so many types of vehicles are available.
     
  3. Sooner Al

    Sooner Al Active Member

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    Well said...
     
  4. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    And, if you need a larger vehicle for the very occasional trip, you don't have to buy to that size, just rent the darn thing. At the difference between mini-van's MPG and the v's MPG, you have $363 in gas savings to pay for the rental for the once a year trip. And you don't have to drive that huge (yea, had a Grand Caravan for 110k miles) thing around except on that trip.
     
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  5. priusplusowner

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    On my fourth year with a Prius plus, the seven-seater European version. It is a great car in many respects but I bought it as a fuel-efficient family car. It has some very problematic limitations that hurts its sale here in Europe. First, it lacks adequate boot space for more than 5 people. Second it lacks good winter equipment. It handles snowy conditions very bad in terms of traction. Also, it lacks heated front windshield and vipers, as well as headlamp washing. This makes half of the year a pain with constantly stopping to clean the headlamps manually. Third, it lacks towing capability which, at least here in Sweden, is almost a mandatory condition for a normal car. The failure to make it into a real crossover with AWD and towing together with adequate boot space for seven people makes it sell very poorly here. I think Toyota needs to rethink their strategy and become up to date with what the market demands.
     
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  6. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    But then there are those like me who have no interest in a single thing you cite as priorities. All they would do is drive up my cost. When I need 7 passengers or significant boot (trunk) space once a year, I rent what we call a mini-van. When it snows once a year, I stay home. It will melt by tomorrow. I tow nothing.

    As a car maker, you choose your market and make the endless trade-off between features and costs.. It fits some people's needs/wants, and not so for others. Not that your needs/wants aren't as you stated and maybe their marketing has calculated the loss of sales due to lack of features and factored that in versus the added sales that lower costs will bring.

    I certainly saw a few Prius wagons in Stockholm when I was there last year.

    (Will they sell the Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid in Europe? 4WD, 7 passenger, boot space, hybrid, tows. Doubt if it is snow/ice equipped as you described though. And not the miles per litre either. Trade-offs.)
     
  7. ems2158

    ems2158 Active Member

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    I usually keep my cars about 5 years and have been thinking about what I would buy to replace my 2013 Prius v when the time comes. Although I haven't seen (in person) or driven the Kia Niro, it looks like it might be an decent alternative. From the specs at fueleconomy.gov, the Niro gets better fuel economy, has a little more passenger space but less cargo room. Is this on any other v owners radar?
     
  8. ltlurker

    ltlurker Member

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    the kia niro front grill takes some real getting used to.. also didn't help that I saw a brown colored one which just looked like a roll of turd with its mouth open driving down the road.

    I fully understand this not a review of the car but my personal ascetic preferences.
     
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  9. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    Toyota makes that vehicle, the Hybrid Highlander.

    (excuse US measures and US specs)
    13.8 cubic feet of cargo area with all seat up, 83.7 with seats down
    AWD
    In the US, we only get windshied wiper de-icers and heated rear view mirrors
    3500 lbs towing
     
    #69 JimboPalmer, Dec 28, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
  10. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    My guess is that the Highlander Hybrid's ~25-26 miles per US gallon (or 9.0-9.4 l/100 km) or so (based on Fuelly, for all years of the 3.5 V6 setup, so the 2017 might do better) isn't going to do well with the European market, when the Prius v gets more like 39-43 mpUSg (or 5.5-6.0 l/100 km).

    Although, you can get the Highlander Hybrid's powertrain in a 2-row (not 3-row) crossover in Europe, the Lexus RX 450h. Looks like the newer ones are hitting ~27 miles per US gallon, or 8.7 l/100 km, so the new engine might help a touch.
     
  11. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    Right, he wants AWD, and towing capacity, and 3 row seating with abundant cargo room, but all those thing cost MPG.

    If he gets all he wants in a v, the rest of us will see lower mileage. I know in part, because I use my v as a cargo van and it shows in my Fuelly numbers.
     
  12. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Buuuuut... I don't think the Highlander would help much in some of the issues, either.

    Here's how much room an Australian-market 7-seater Prius v has behind the third row:

    [​IMG]

    And, here's how much room a Highlander Hybrid has behind the third row:

    [​IMG]

    That's not much better, especially if you're actually trying to carry cargo for seven.

    Length doesn't actually hurt fuel economy much - what's added in weight can be made up for in aerodynamics - and length is what's needed to improve cargo capacity.

    As far as towing capacity, the Gen 3 powertrain (which, the Prius a/v/+ is basically a long wheelbase Gen 3) has never been rated to tow... but the Gen 4 powertrain is rated to tow in Europe, now - up to 725 kg. (And, the Gen 4 is available in Japan with E-Four, so the Gen 4 platform can do it.) And, if that's not enough capacity, the current 2.5 liter hybrid powertrain is rated to tow 1650 kg in the RAV4, and that's old tech.

    Really, something like a next-generation Estima with the next-gen Camry Hybrid powertrain, and E-Four (which is standard on the current Estima Hybrid), could probably do this, and the current Estima (which is using the old 2.4 liter Camry Hybrid powertrain up front, not even the current one) has more cargo space than either the Highlander or the 7-seat Prius a/v/+:

    [​IMG]

    With the way that Europeans tow, it'd have plenty of towing capacity, E-Four can be made available, and a 2.5 liter powertrain would be a lot more efficient than a 3.5 liter.
     
  13. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    Prius+ 200 liters after 3rd row Models of Prius+ | Specifications | Toyota Europe

    I can't find the cargo area for the Highlander in Europe, or the Kluger in Australia, but the conversion from US 13.8 cubic feet is 391 liters, so almost twice as much.
     
  14. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    US cargo figures are extremely inaccurate...

    Toyota Australia's claiming 195 liters for the Kluger with the 3rd row up: Toyota Kluger features interior design luggage space

    For comparison, they claim 180 litres in the 3-row Prius v: Prius v: a family Prius for the Prius family

    Edit: And Toyota New Zealand says 269 liters, (and per their glossary, using the VDA method, to the top of the seat backs), for the Highlander, behind the third row: Highlander AWD Limited Specifications - Toyota NZ And, they say 200 liters for the three-row Prius v: Prius v Prius v Specifications - Toyota NZ
     
    #74 bhtooefr, Dec 28, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
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  15. Offline

    Offline Active Member

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    The Prius+ was originally marketed in Europe as capable of towing small trailers such as those for small sailboats and jet skis. The exact same "tow bar" that was formerly designated for trailer towing is now designated only for use with a bicycle carrier: http://www.toyota-tech.eu/aimuploads/5b7dcb23-1c3e-4554-a0bf-a5e8bc21b9f2/Prius_Plus_SABH_Bracket_PZ408_G5690_00AIM_002_431_3.pdf

    The trailer wiring harness for the Prius+ is still listed on the Toyota Europe service website as "Towing hitch wiring kit" but the PDF document itself has been changed to "Stand alone bicycle holder wiring kit": http://www.toyota-tech.eu/aimuploads/cb06a87a-c8a7-4a74-8ea0-03d0ae20a118/Prius%2b_SABH_WH_PZ457-G5560-00_AIM%20002%20488-0.pdf

    Toyota Europe websites formerly showed the Prius+ towing small trailers. Funny how the towing equipment for the Prius+ magically changed overnight into components for carrying bicycles.
     
  16. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    I am amazed you found a Toyota that listed cargo spaces for both cars, AU had no numbers on their specification page for either the V or the Kluger, Toyota Europe had the + but not the Highlander. (the names change by market it seems very harder to search on +)
    So 180 liters in AU, 200 liters in EU, and no data in US as we don't get 7 passenger versions for the Prius Alpha. Ah well.
     
  17. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Toyota Europe doesn't get the Highlander at all, it's a class of vehicle that doesn't work in Europe outside of the luxury class (and, the similar (but only two-row) Lexus RX is available in Europe), because fuel is far too expensive.
     
  18. imwolddw

    imwolddw Junior Member

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    I love my Prius v but am really hoping Toyota will expand the Prius Prime to a Prius v Prime in a year or two!!
     
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  19. imwolddw

    imwolddw Junior Member

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    shucks! just took my Prius v in for routine maintenance and learned from my service rep that Toyota is discontinuing the "v" (and the "c"), so henceforth, it seems there will only be the Prius and Prius Prime?! What a shame; the rep said the closest substitute would be the RAV 4 Hybrid--but at about 10 mpg less efficient the "v"!)
     
  20. rdgrimes

    rdgrimes Senior Member

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    ^^^
    Let's all rush to believe what somebody at the dealer says they heard. ;)