1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

What is the technology used for SKS?

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by el Crucero, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2015
    1,628
    698
    0
    Location:
    Inland Empire
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    For those of you who are smarter than I am, which is most of you, what is the technology used for the SKS fob? Is there a companion sensor in the front doors/trunk? How does the fob communicate with the start button? Why don't more cars use this system?

    Somebody help me out here, please.
     
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,595
    11,220
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    I don't know the technical details, but it is essentially the same technology as used in credit card chips; RFID. There is one sensor in the car that queries passing fobs for the correct ID code. It controls car functions; start up, open doors, etc. through the car's computer.

    Cost is a factor in why some cars have it and some don't, but I think it is more used as a carrot for upselling trims and options at this point.

    As for why the Model 3 (this is in the Tesla forum) doesn't have it, that is because the fob needs a battery to send the ID code to the car. Without that, the chip has to be really close, as in a credit card reader. Without a battery the Model 3 key can be stored in a wallet, and those batteries do pose a risk to the environment and public health.

    If you want SKS function for the Model 3, you can pair a smart phone with bluetooth to the car to act as a SKS fob. The Bolt might also have this option.
     
    el Crucero likes this.
  3. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2015
    1,628
    698
    0
    Location:
    Inland Empire
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    So, if I understand your informative post correctly, the only difference between SKS and Tesla's key card is a battery. Interesting! The Tesla smartphone app to control the car has been highly problematic. It works, sort of, sometimes. In my opinion, consistent model 3 access is the greatest obstacle faced by Tesla right now, especially for those of us who do have or want a smartphone.
     
  4. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    2,763
    2,250
    13
    Location:
    Chesterton, Indiana Another third world country.
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    I don't know the system used in the Prius but RFID chips come in different varieties. There are the low powered ones and the high powered ones like they use in you Ipass or EZ pass that will work at long distances.

    Radio-frequency identification - Wikipedia
     
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,768
    16,017
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    There are wallet-sized SKS fobs (mostly Lexus in North America but it exists for Toyota models in Japan. There was even a SKS watch for the Toyota Crown!)
     
  6. CamryDriver

    CamryDriver Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    541
    391
    0
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I had a vehicle that used a similar system 20 year ago. The FOBs were passive in that you didn't need to hit any buttons because they were always transmitting. The next generation dropped this system in favor of a more conventional push button FOB. On the early version you just needed to have the FOB because it was transmitting at a low level all the time. The later versions required the push of a button to transmit.

    Curiously the stated reason for the change was better security. The only time you could intercept the signal on the later version was when a button was pushed. The early version was always beaming a signal and this was deemed a security risk.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    someone here 'craig'? installed 3 door sks in a one door system. there was a lot of wiring and antennae installation involved. it was a pretty big diy job.

    sks also requires a larger 12v battery.
     
  8. Diemaster

    Diemaster Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2017
    290
    260
    2
    Location:
    so. cal
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    i know it hasn't always been RFID or even RF. in the early 90's, Honda used infrared light (like your TV remote) for the key-less entry system on their civic SiR.

    i actually like this system more b.c it's harder to interrupt/hijack the signal.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,595
    11,220
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    That's a remote keyless system; you have to push a button.

    Smart Keyless System, including whatever the other brands call it, are passive; you don't need to take it out of your pocket. That is the complaint about the Model 3's key card; it has to take it out of your pocket to open the car door. Tesla did this because they figured the majority would link their phone to the car to act as a SKS fob, and the key card is cheaper. Plus, getting rid of the battery bypasses the environmental and public health issues of it.
     
  10. CamryDriver

    CamryDriver Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    541
    391
    0
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    SKS is awesome. Security concerns aside, not needing to EVER take the FOB out of your pocket/purse is a great feature. I never knew how much I'd like it till I had it.

    My old car with a similar system required a key for starting so you still needed to get the key out of your pocket. This is not nearly as convenient because you were still fumbling around in your pocket/purse looking for the key.

    With Toyota's SKS, entry and starting is all done with the FOB still in your pocket. I can't overstate how handy this is when you are carrying something like groceries. It is especially awesome in the cold when you have gloves on your hands.

    One time my wife was looking in her purse to find the Camry FOB and I said " Why? Just take your purse and don't worry about it. As long as the FOB is somewhere in the purse you can do everything you need to do." She said "Oh yeah!" and went on her way without ever actually finding the FOB. I don't know how many of you are married but let me tell you that finding things in a purse can be a big deal...
     
    #10 CamryDriver, Feb 2, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
    el Crucero likes this.
  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,768
    16,017
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I think Toyota's unlock system is the most straightforward and intuitive - literally just grab and pull the handle as if the car was unlocked.

    Other systems (e.g. Nissan) require you to push a button to unlock before you pull the handle to open the door. (i.e. the lock/unlock system is with that button on the handle instead of a sensor embedded behind the handle)
     
    CamryDriver and el Crucero like this.
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,595
    11,220
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Patents may be in play.
    Ford's were the only cars with a keypad lock for years because they held the patent.
     
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,605
    8,036
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Maybe the only more intuutive would be the Model X's fob. You don't even have to TOUCH the door. The fob & the X see e/other aproaching from about 10', & the drivers' door then automatically opens as you approach. It sees WHICH fob was nearing the door, & prepares to come out of "exit" mode (steering wheel retracted & seat backed up) automatically readjusting mirrors/lumbar/headrest/seats/steering wheel for that fob's user as soon as you enter & step on the brake. Car sees the fob in driver's possession & drivers foot on brake, & driver's door automatically closes & locks.
    No on/off button - with driver/fob in position, just shift to 'R' or 'F'

    Fancy fob w/ stupid overkill.
    If all of that's not ridiculous enough, the fob can forward or reverse summon the car, from up to 75' away.... so if you're to dang lazy to walk up to it ... fob it.
    .
     
    #13 hill, Mar 26, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,768
    16,017
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    It also assumes you want to get into the driver's seat. There are many times I'll walk around the car to get to the trunk. I don't want the driver's door opening every time I walk by lol (So I guess I will not enable that function if I own an X :LOL:)
     
  15. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,605
    8,036
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Yell yea - that's the 'stupid' part of stupid overkill ... ya gotta hit
    the trunk button & carfully sneek up from the other side.
    That works almost ½ the time

    .
     
    pilotgrrl and Tideland Prius like this.
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    and this kind of intelligence will be driving our cars?
     
  17. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,605
    8,036
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    A mere 10% improvement better than human interaction is all it takes to be consideted a decent improvement, & that's not much of an improvement. But owners are tickled pink with that, so what are ya gonna do. Just like the 2004 sks in the prius .... yesterday's wow factor becomes the standard of today.
    .
     
  18. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    12,470
    6,862
    2
    Location:
    Greenwood MS USA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    On the Prius, (this is PriusChat) there is powered and un-powered RFID in the fob. If t.he battery dies and you hold the fob to the Power button, that is the white strip inside the fob, un-powered RFID.
     
  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,605
    8,036
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Yep ... & on the older Pri - you could simply plug the fob right into the dash. That was not only way cool, it was extremely convenient in the event of a dead fob battery. Oh for the bygone days.

    .
     
    pilotgrrl likes this.
  20. pilotgrrl

    pilotgrrl Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2017
    891
    1,796
    0
    Location:
    Chicagoan in TX
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Yeah, stupid me! I asked the salesman where the slot was on the dash of the Gen 4 when I went to go get it. He told me Toyota took the slot out starting on the Gen 3.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.