What is wrong with my timing P0016

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by johnnychimpo, Jan 30, 2021.

  1. johnnychimpo

    johnnychimpo Member

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    Double triple quadruple checked timing chain timing marks it is where they should be can anyone confirm?
    getting P0016 I don't know what else to to any advise please!

    also getting P0351 P0352 P0353



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    #1 johnnychimpo, Jan 30, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
  2. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    is the chain the right length? They don't stretch much, but with enough wear they can elongate by enough to fool the ecu.

    What about the tensioner? Even if it has the right amount of slack, a bad tensioner would let it lash during rpm changes, and that also may be enough to upset the ecu.
     
  3. cnc97

    cnc97 Senior Member

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    Even my 209k failed engine still had traces of blue paint in the intake cam gear slot. Are you sure that’s the right mark on the intake gear?

    The p035x codes are electrical connection at cylinder x(1-4)
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Can you remind us, concisely in one place, exactly which of the steps from the six pages of "inspection procedure" for P0016 you have followed so far, and for the ones you have followed, exactly what each result was?

    I'm starting to feel like the information is spread over some number of threads, and it's getting hard to follow along.

    The first step in the inspection procedure is to troubleshoot any other ECM DTCs first, so that would be a good case for figuring out why your ignition coil IGF signals are disappearing.
     
  5. johnnychimpo

    johnnychimpo Member

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    Could this be a bad cam sensor??


    Sorry let me elaborate. I changed the head gasket. Had an issue with he cams slipping got it back together only to find chain slipped by one link so I opened it up confirmed timing marks double triple checked. I ordered another chain figured since I got it open might as well.
    I compared and found my chain was not stretched so back in it went. triple checked timing marks see pic. started the car and immediately got P0016 along with P0351 P0352 P0353. I opened it up again fearing the worst another slip on the chain but to my pleasant surprise the timing chain and marks look correct. so could bad coils or a cam sensor cause p0016 or can P0351 P0352 P0353 cause P0016. I am not familiar with the trouble shooting procedure can you give me some guidance?
     
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    There comes a point in some projects where getting familiar with the procedure starts to look like the most promising way forward.

    This might be that point....
     
  7. johnnychimpo

    johnnychimpo Member

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    agreed can you point me in the right direction?
     
  8. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    He is pointing at the Toyota site where you pay $20 for two days access and then download the Repair manual and as much else as you can such as the Wiring diagrams. Ideally to a decent computer. Some of the files are huge and may choke a smartphone. They are made to display on a PC sized screen. At that point you start reading and studying.

    Realize the Toyota documents on a specific procedure will have links to multiple other procedures which you should download as well during your access.

    Click the link below
    Toyota - New Subscription

    Minimum System Requirements
    B39F0E58-699D-4B10-80D9-5D75F432D958.jpeg
     
    #8 rjparker, Jan 30, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    ... well, the link I gave was to the handy wiki page that Elektoingenieur kindly put together, which includes not only the direct links to the Toyota technical information service (for various countries and regions), but also to a number of other services where the information may be available, such as some public libraries. (There may be some pandemic effects on the public-library options, but anyway, Elektroingenieur did research a bunch of different ways of getting access to the manuals, and helpfully described them all on that page.)

    I should mention that I don't think Toyota has touched that "system requirements" page in years, like, not since Java 6, Windows 7, and IE 10 were things. It could maybe scare some folks off, thinking they'll have to build some kind of beater system all loaded up with old obsolete stuff.

    That's not my experience. The TIS stuff all seems to work fine in modern browsers; it's bog-standard HTML and PNG images and PDFs. The wiring diagrams do cool things with JavaScript and SVG, also nothing arcane or obscure.

    It's just that nobody has ever gone and updated that "requirements" page.
     
  10. johnnychimpo

    johnnychimpo Member

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    Thanks for the info but I'm not good with electrical stuff I also dont I have those tools. Im ready to cut my losses. I'm gonna try a couple more things but first is it likely my chain is stretched at 180 k to the point of replacement? I got another chain from a younger engine mine is shorter so did not see the need to replace it. Like I said timing Marks look good so can cam or crank shaft sensors go bad?
     
  11. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    It is possible to introduce two or more problems that were not there before the head gasket engine repair. One may have been the "slipped" timing chain, another could be wiring, connectors or sensors. There are ways to positively identify the current problem but it is not always easy without experience and the factory procedures.

    I have worked on mechanical and electrical gear for fifty years and I can tell you there were times when I have "guaranteed" myself that some area was right only to find out that a fundamental and basic assumption was wrong. Even when I "double triple checked." I kept making the same mistake exactly the same way every time. Or I skipped troubleshooting steps because "that connector is attached" or "it worked the first time." Unfortunately, everyone is prone to false assumptions and the "don't know what I don't know" trap.

    Not wanting to do electrical checks will limit your success when something electrical is at fault. Yes your sensors could be bad but it could be a bad ground or a connector not plugged in properly. Or a hundred other things.

    It might be time to take it to a shop that has the knowledge, experience and tools to quickly diagnose the problem. A good shop could nail it in an hour. That's what I would do because I know my limits.
     
    #11 rjparker, Jan 31, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2021
  12. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    The timing chain has not stretched. And "IF" it did, NOT a full link!
    The SMART thing to do was to turn the engine over twice (720 degrees) and check the timing marks.
    And do it as soon as you release the tensioner. The SHOULD all line up. If you keep coming up one tooth off,
    then go one tooth the other way when you install it. Then it should line up.
    If you go SLOW, and follow the directions on how to install it, carefully, you should be able to do it the first time,
    second at the most.
    I think you are making this harder than it is.
     
  13. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I mean I've seen chains that were worn enough to change timing in other engines, but I have no direct experience with that problem on a prius engine. I'd say it's pretty unlikely.

    Sensors can go bad, but if you search Priuschat you'll find many postings from people who had P0016 and went on to replace both cam & crank sensors with no effect.

    I can keep throwing out suggestions (I promise they aren't actually random) and we will eventually get it going- but you'd save yourself a lot of time and probably more than a few bucks by just stepping through the diagnostic procedure in the Toyota repair manual.
     
  14. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    An interesting video that shows the power of an experienced auto diagnostician. Be sure to watch the bonus footage at the end where he talks about how long it might take to id the problem.
     
  15. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Active Member

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    Love the Pico scope. It's my favorite.
    It's a good write up, you would also have seen it if you did a Volumetric Efficiency test (or just hung a vacuum gauge on it).

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  16. johnnychimpo

    johnnychimpo Member

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    I found the issue I had replaced the timing chain tensioner with one I thought was newer I was wrong I pulled it and measured it and it was half an inch shorter than my original one I reinstalled my original one cleared the codes and p0016 has not returned or any other codes. But... It still feels like it's misfiring or not completely firing correctly.(no DTC code of any kind.) I don't think it's a bent rod as I did not have this issue prior to replacing the head gasket and even up to that point when I replaced it it did not have that issue I'm getting new coil packs this weekend and I will do a compression test to see exactly what's going on.
    I installed new injectors and plugs so I hope the coils fix this.
     
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  17. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Glad you found the issue....
    While you have the plugs out, go to TDC and put a screwdrive, or some type of stick or rod, and measure
    the height of each the 2 cylinders, them rotate the engine to put the other 2 at TDC and measure them.
    The should all be the same. If they are, no bent rods. If one or more is off, then bent rod(s).
    Hopefully, replacing the coils will solve your miss problem.
     
  18. johnnychimpo

    johnnychimpo Member

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    Thanks I will do that.
     
  19. johnnychimpo

    johnnychimpo Member

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    What can I stick in there to measure with?
     
  20. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Screwdriver? Thin tape measure?
     
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