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What Kills Prius Compressors ? How to prevent it !

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by lech auto air conditionin, Jul 31, 2020.

  1. lech auto air conditionin

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    Yes you are exactly 100% right what I list off is what the book doesn’t mention.

    There is so much the book dose not tell you it’s not even funny.

    It’s sad to say but true , automotive books especially air conditioning were written for people with a below six grade average education.

    But when you’ve done something over 40 years every day from morning tonight and watched a technology change and you were there from the beginning and the first make model introduced a new technology and you see it come to pass a decade or two later into the next generation. Do you see things in a different way and understand deeper face knowledge of the physics in the mechanics the science behind it’s working. Not to mention being formally educated and thermal dynamics and fluid dynamics in a degree of HVAC technology and commercial refrigeration.

    I have been redoing and Re-repairing Air-conditioning from shops that have been in business for more than 30 years supposedly doing air-conditioning in Eaven specialty air conditioning and radiator shops who keep replacing the wrong parts and pushing the car out the door and then redoing it multiple times before it finally gets to me.

    This is why when I started my own business 30 years ago we had nearly 30 radiator and air conditioning specialty shops in the San Francisco Bay Area. We now only have one. If you specialize in something you’re supposed to be so good and so profitable you can’t possibly go out of business. what’s that tell you what happened. Technology changed but the old dinosaurs did not.

    Lead , follow or get out of the way
    “ Lee Iacocca“
     
  2. lech auto air conditionin

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    The simplest way that is not the most scientific is the way I explained putting my hand on the suction line down by the compressor. That is about as good as you’re going to get

    There’s 100,000 shops that have no gauges I just have a can with the little hose and a little yellow green and red indicator and they call that a gauge and they do it every day and they released refrigerant to the atmosphere every day even though they know it’s not legal and they should not it’s all about the money.
     
  3. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    Yes I got that. Just tried to explain why I was asking.

    Those cans are illegal here. And fines for releasing refrigerant to atmosphere would be big.
     
  4. lech auto air conditionin

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    I just see you are from Finland. Europe especially northern around Finland Sweden and Switzerland are much more advanced and more detailed with their training. Your education system in general and especially your trades schools are far superior than what we have here in the United States. Your education by ninth grade in Finland is equal to a college university degree here in the United States.

    I met a few automotive technician from Finland very technical very analytical And trying to understand or speak Fin it’s like trying to understand an alien language from another world lol .

    Compared to Finland or Sweden or Germany here in America there’s no requirement mandated for a trade school there’s no requirement for certification there’s no requirement or automotive education of any kind to open up and own a automotive shop. Learn on the job breaking things not all shops like this but many are. Here in the United States they nearly removed all the trade schools from high school, no more metal shop no more wood shop no more automotive shop no more advanced science classes. Basically our schools flip out burger flippers janitorial mop pushers.
     
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  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Well, so what's a guy to do who hasn't got Tom's fancy clamp-on thermal probes?

    If the guy has a small paintbrush and a can of black Plasti Dip, he can wash off a spot on the aluminum discharge tube and paint a little black Plasti Dip cross target on it:

    tgtrgb.jpg

    Reason for doing that is aluminum is terrible for taking an IR temp reading off of. Where it's clean, it has such low emissivity that it's just going to reflect at you the temperature of whatever's around it, so you won't be able to read the temp of the tube itself.

    Where the aluminum is covered with road grime, it would read a little better, but the trouble is you wouldn't know how much better (try searching an emissivity table for "once-shiny aluminum now covered with unknown road grime").

    But simple black Plasti Dip has great emissivity, and with a skinny little paintbrush you can put a little target of it even on a tube that's a little hard to reach, and not worry about sticking your hand in the fan.

    Then you just get out the IR camera:

    disch.jpg

    The top of the tube (except where the Plasti cross is) looks downright purple/cool; that's where I washed it off with a damp rag before painting the dip on. It's clean shiny aluminum there, so it's just reflecting the cooler temperatures around it. The vertical leg is looking warmer, because I didn't wash it there, so the road grime is making it a better emitter there. But the black Plasti Dip cross is glowing like neon up there, reading 93.3℃. Whoo, this isn't looking good. 199.9℉!

    Like Gen 2, the Gen 3 condenser inlet and outlet are on the passenger side front of the condenser, where they can be seen through the louvers of the lower grille. A little hard to reach through the grille, but the skinny dip brush fits through, and the camera can see the fittings.

    Vapor going in:

    vapor.jpg

    Liquid leaving:

    liquid.jpg

    Dropping from 92.5 to 53.9 ℃, yikes. 38.6 Celsius degrees, 69.5 Fahrenheit ones. Well, at least it's not a hundred of 'em like in Tom's video of the 2008.

    Gen 3 replaces the Gen 1/Gen 2 pressure switch with an actual high-side pressure sensor readable in Techstream, which is nice, you can read the high-side pressure anyway without fussing with an external gauge. It was reading just under 220 psi there. 53.9℃ seems to go with about 211 psi at saturation, so the condenser is still managing to subcool by a little bit.

    This was in about 80℉ ambient, high fan, max cool, doors open. The sight glass showed some bubbles for a moment at startup, then went all clear, so it would not have suggested any problem. The high-side pressure seemed reasonable. The thermistor built into the evap coil was reading about 50℉; the ECU was trying to get it to 35℉ but not getting there. It felt pleasant out the dash vents though.

    With the system off and equalized, the pressure reads about 100 psi. That's about the right saturation pressure for the ambient temperature, so that doesn't really say much at all. As long as there's any amount of refrigerant in there sufficient for some to be liquid, it's going to read the saturation pressure when it isn't running.

    So it seems like in my case here, Tom's discharge-temperature test is the only one really telling me I should stop using this until it's recharged. That and the evap temperature unable to get down to target.
     
    #25 ChapmanF, Aug 2, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  6. lech auto air conditionin

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    Excellent job there now we’re cooking with some high-octane fuel .

    As for black paint barbecue paint for your weber flat black.
    It’s also Excellent to spray on the case of the compressor if you want to take non-contact with a thermal imaging camera I prefer thermal imaging cameras over the cheap little thermal IR temperature gauge.
     
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  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Dr. Scholl's spray foot powder, if you want something that gives a good reading then washes right off.
     
  8. lech auto air conditionin

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    Dr. Scholls is good for finding oil leak but has a high emissivity. It reflects heat. Reflects the reading of the infrared camera sensor to pick up.

    Not as bad as a mirror or a polish piece of metal. Where are the polish piece of metal or mirror can be in front of you or off to an angle to the side and you and your infrared camera at the object you want to measure in the center and you have a very high intense heat source behind you radiating forward towards you from behind the infrared radiation strikes the reflective items to your left or to your right reflecting it like a mirror straight at you and the lens of your infrared camera throwing off your readings even though you have the camera facing forward to a small item that you want to take the measurement from. Infrared light bounces around like light.
    And when using an infrared device they do not like very hot air or very cold air blowing around directly towards the face of their lens it causes a distortion that throws off your readings.

    You can see examples of this on YouTube with guys doing air conditioning with an infrared thermometer pointing it directly down in the center Dash duct. As the temperature keeps decreasing from 40° to 38° to 28° to 17°F as they’re commenting how great the air-conditioning is working because they could get such low temperatures.
    When in fact it’s the lensing distortion factor affecting the sensor in the front of the camera giving a false reading ever decreasing.

    This is what happens when somebody is giving a good tool but does not understand its functions and its limitations. And environmental effects on its readings.

    The same goes when using a IR sensor device for reading temperature the farther you pull it back from the item being measured the lensing surface area it was meant to read at a given distance increases in diameter.

    Example if I was trying to take a temperature of a aluminum pipe that I painted black with a half inch diameter. In the specification for the diameter at 1/2 inch for my infrared temperature reading device was 12 inches away but I was taking a measurement from 16 inches away it would be skewed by having a larger diameter picking up whatever temperature was to the left and to the right behind it skewing the true temperature.
     
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  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    High emissivity corresponds to low reflectivity. Perfect emissivity is that of a black-body radiator. The reason for adding the black Plasti Dip in #25 is to increase the emissivity, because the aluminum pipe by itself, being shiny, has very low emissivity. Trying to read from the aluminum itself, you'll just be reading the temperature of whatever is reflected in it. That can be seen clearly in the first IR image in #25. The black Plasti Dip, with its very high emissivity, is where the temperature of the tube is getting accurately read.

    FLIR publishes a list of good, easy, high-emissivity surface treatments you can apply to a troublesome low-emissivity surface so you can get good readings.

    Scotch 33 electrical tape is on there, as well as the Plasti Dip I used, as well as flat non-metallic paint and your barbecue paint. The barbecue paint is obviously a good choice on items you expect to get hot enough to melt something like electrical tape. The document sensibly points out that for a lot of applications, if you use electrical tape and it melts, you don't need the thermal camera to tell you there's a problem.

    The Dr. Scholl's spray foot powder is plugged in the same document, as being useful when you want to coat a large area and wash it off later.

    My favorite example of that on youtube:

    [​IMG]

    Guy thinks because he's able to plant the laser spot on that little sliver of exhaust pipe barely showing between the heat shield and the flange, that's the temperature he's reading. If he had opened his tool's manual

    [​IMG]

    he would know he was reading the average temperature of a tiny sliver of exhaust pipe, a bunch of heat shield, part of a joint flange, and some air.
     
    #29 ChapmanF, Aug 2, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  10. lech auto air conditionin

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    Here’s some continuation of the 2007 Prius the black one and the silver one.
    From my previous videos more diagnosis to be done on the black one they just need to call her now if they choose to look for further problems that’s an option the customer will have to pay for further diagnosis.

    All I can say is body shops are the root of all evil and mischief do not let body shops do mechanical repairs.





    sorry I couldn’t give you all details in Dave’s videos made a few mistakes I was losing time and falling behind schedule had to rush them.