What Prius Prime needs.

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by EV Happy, Mar 6, 2020.

  1. EV Happy

    EV Happy Member

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    I have a 2017 Prius and if 4 years from now they would come out with a battery that had twice the range, I believe they would capture a market. It would be nice if it could also fit in previous models as a replacement but if it was only available in a new model, I could live with that. Very few times I need more then 50 miles in a day.
     
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  2. schja01

    schja01 One of very few in Chicagoland

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    Very few times I need more than 20 miles per day.
    There will always be those who need more.
    I am sure Toyota studied this a lot and came up with the number they did for a good reason.
     
    #2 schja01, Mar 6, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
  3. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    I can very definitely see both viewpoints.

    In my particular case, as with Schja01, I am able to get 95% EV operation in-town, because I can charge at home, at work, and many other places we go to around town. But not everybody can, so I can definitely also see a solid case for a car like the Honda Clarity PHEV, which is a really nice car, BTW — classy interior.

    The most important thing, above all else, is it’s a trade-off: As I read it, the Prius Prime’s goal is to provide the largest battery they can without the added weight compromising HV-mode efficiency. Indeed they succeeded in that regard; HV-mode MPG is pretty much the same as on a regular Prius. The Volt and Clarity do have considerably longer range, which is certainly not a bad thing, but MPG in hybrid operation is also considerably lower.

    People also often forget another advantage of the Prius Prime’s place on that trade-off: The Volt and Clarity are also somewhat less efficient in EV mode, having both a heavy battery and heavy engine/gas tank!

    So, in my view, the Prius Prime is intended above all else to be a super-efficient car, whether or not it’s the ideal plug-in hybrid. Although I came to this conclusion independently, Alex on Autos seems to agree:
    , for whatever it’s worth.
     
    #3 mr88cet, Mar 6, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Not sure where you read that, but it is not correct. I suspect someone assumed that at some point and passed it along as fact which then readers never questioned.

    The real story is Toyota was targeting affordability. Using the robust stack they had available at the time made it a tradeoff of space & capacity. That cost-effective reliability was key, so they went forward with the configuration.
     
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  5. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    I certainly don’t disagree that affordability was high on their minds, as well as battery-supply concerns, and the ability to retrofit it into an existing platform. However, I also have no doubt that if they’d designed in a considerably-larger battery, both its MPG in HV mode, and its miles/KWh in EV mode would have dropped substantially.
     
  6. NSXT

    NSXT Active Member

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    It makes sense if the battery is solid state (SSB). Otherwise carrying a heavier dead weight like volt/clarity makes no sense. You need more EV juice to move that extra weight as well. A BEV without an ICE is a different story.

    The 2020 that comes with the extra seat, I think the eMPG or MPG overall will drop a bit (need @Salamander_King to provide his great daily stat in a few months into summer and compare to his 2017 that he traded in :D)
     
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  7. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    LOL I have already IMPROVED my new 2020 PRIME LE EV efficiency vastly over 2017 PRIME, but not so much on gas engine MPG yet.

    upload_2020-3-6_8-39-19.png
     
  8. NSXT

    NSXT Active Member

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    Until you lend your Prime to your partner then it will be a different story :rolleyes:

    But the data is too small at this moment, let it roll for a few more months and see (y)
     
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  9. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, that's true. DM2 miles/kWh changes daily up and down at this short ODO distance. It should settle a bit by the end of summer when I will have at least 10K miles.

    BTW, my wife has come to liking her SUV so much now, she prefers it over PRIME.:( Besides, I am now using my car for ride share to work every day. With 2017 PRIME, we had only one car for me and my wife and I was ride sharing to work when my wife needed a car.
     
    #9 Salamander_King, Mar 6, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
  10. Bob Comer

    Bob Comer Active Member

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    I need at least 77, and sometimes 100...
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Will you buy one if they pile another battery on top of the existing one, and there’s no hatch space left?
     
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  12. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    For whatever it’s worth, the main thing I would ask for, to improve the Prius Prime, would be so trivially simple for Toyota to provide: Charge to <N> miles rather than always charging to full.

    That, since I know how many GoM miles I need to get to work, where I have quasi-free charging.

    I currently set my charging departure time approximately an hour later than when I actually leave, but my departure time is not super-consistent. I also find that, even when I do leave at a consistent time, its charging timing is not super-consistent either.
     
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  13. smyles

    smyles Active Member

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    Prius gets 50 miles battery and people will demand a 100 miles one due to "I need to travel from A to B"

    Prius gets a 100 battery and folks will argue that a 200 miles one is a minimum.

    A 200 miles battery won't be enough cause once in blue moon someone has to travel 250 miles.

    Then it won't charge fast enough.

    Still takes 20 mins vs. 2 mins gas stop.

    And so on...
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Longer EV range PHEVs will make it more acceptable to the public to switch to more expensive renewable gas or diesel.
     
  15. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    I think I speak for most Prius Prime drivers when I say that I’m seeing nowhere even vaguely close to a 50-mile EV range. Congratulations!
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm getting 12 1/2 in the pip, and wish it had 25...
     
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  17. smyles

    smyles Active Member

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    eh, wut?
     
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  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    We can make renewable fuels. The cost is not something people would put up with with today's mix of ICE cars. Get the majority into PHEVs that means they only need ICE fuel for trips, and the higher cost can be acceptable.
     
  19. Washingtonian

    Washingtonian Active Member

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    I assume the Prime engineering was done in 2015 and 2016 for the 2017 model year. Has battery technology (size, weight, efficiency and cost) improved enough since then that batteries in a 2021 model could provide a significant improvement?
     
  20. smyles

    smyles Active Member

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    Unlikely. For most 'green' folks buying cars with ICE is against their beliefs. Most common users don't buy PHEVs for well known reasons. Renewable fuels is a dead end, like hydrogen.
     
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