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What Prius Prime needs.

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by EV Happy, Mar 6, 2020.

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  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It is a long term goal.
    Hydrogen's hurdle is distribution infrastructure. We can make renewable methane and diesel that uses existing infrastructure now, if we so choose.
     
    #21 Trollbait, Mar 6, 2020
  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Cost was the driving factor for the Prime (and I guess efficiency too. It is a Prius after all). Toyota’s idea was that if it was cheap enough with reasonable range and excellent efficiency, it will attract a wider range of audiences as opposed to a longer range and potentially alienating the existing base with a lower hybrid mpg number and higher entry price.

    It could be the combination of the federal tax rebate (rebate not credit in Canada. That means everyone qualifies and it’s at Point of Sale) and the 5-seat version but I see a decent number of Primes everyday. Model 3s still outnumber them by far but I’m seeing fewer Outlander PHEVs and much more (relative to the Outlander) Primes.

    Even though the rebate is half of an EV, it’s a much cheaper option and still has the familiarity of a hybrid.
     
    #22 Tideland Prius, Mar 6, 2020
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Thank your Toyota dealers.
    If Toyota has their way,
    It would have been under 20 miles and a full hatch
     
    #23 bisco, Mar 6, 2020
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  4. evpv

    evpv Active Member

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    I’d like to have a bigger gas engine. HyCam gets 50mpg with a 2.5L engine, Prime is smaller with better aerodynamics so using a 2.5L wouldn’t lower HV mpg much compared to our wimpy 1.8L. The benefit would be 200+ HP when needed, and still retain excellent efficiency in EV mode. It would be more fun to drive and eliminate the anemic Prius 0-60 numbers that turn off potential buyers.
     
    #24 evpv, Mar 7, 2020
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  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Basically the RAV4 Prime’s system in a Camry Hybrid.

    Alternatively, the Corolla’s 2.0L hybrid system from the U.K.
     
    #25 Tideland Prius, Mar 7, 2020
  6. Bob Comer

    Bob Comer Active Member

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    Would a bigger engine even fit under the hood...
     
    #26 Bob Comer, Mar 7, 2020
  7. MikeDee

    MikeDee Senior Member

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    I agree. Haven't batteries improved in the last 4 years? The next model should have more range.
     
    #27 MikeDee, Mar 7, 2020
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    or a larger hatch
     
    #28 bisco, Mar 7, 2020
  9. Bob Comer

    Bob Comer Active Member

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    Why would you want a larger hatch, it's already humungous. (I bet you mean storage!)

    What I want is no hatch at all, turn it into a sedan or coupe would be great by me. (or at least a power hatch, it's unusable for me as is. (I'm too short to close it)
     
    #29 Bob Comer, Mar 7, 2020
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Yes, storage. My next car will like be a larger plug in
     
    #30 bisco, Mar 7, 2020
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Rumor is the prime will get a better packaged battery.

    GM moved to better chemistries during the run of the gen1 Volt that yielded better slightly range; same with the Spark EV. It isn't something I see Toyota doing.
     
    #31 Trollbait, Mar 7, 2020
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  12. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I hope so . If Toyota can get the cost down of a liquid-cooled battery, that'll help. It's easier to hide the cost in a profitable SUV.
     
    #32 Tideland Prius, Mar 8, 2020
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  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    With 20 years of proven performance, do they need liquid cooling?
     
    #33 bisco, Mar 8, 2020
  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    If you want higher charging rates (beyond 3.3kW) and reduced risk of heat-related stress on the battery.
     
    #34 Tideland Prius, Mar 8, 2020
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  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Is Toyota using NiMH in their plug ins?
     
    #35 Trollbait, Mar 8, 2020
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    no, but they've had good success with air cooling of both types. i don't see the point of liquid cooling a phev, or a need for faster charging of a 25 mile battery
     
    #36 bisco, Mar 8, 2020
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  17. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    No. But we’re discussing longer range PHEVs.
     
    #37 Tideland Prius, Mar 8, 2020
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  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Toyota has only been using Li-ion since the PiP and Prius v in other markets. These are really small packs relatively speaking. Nissan and Hyundai have had more experience with air cooling larger packs, and I wouldn't call one of them a success. Air cooling could work, but it generally requires a more expensive chemistry, which could negate the cost reason for going with air.

    The Prime's pack is about the limit most other PHEVs have gone with air cooling. Most above that have gone with liquid cooling. The Rav4 Prime will have a loop off the HVAC system to help cool the pack. Exactly how, we don't know(direct cooling or chilling incoming air). Less details are known about their BEVs, except photos of the packs have air blowers.
     
    #38 Trollbait, Mar 9, 2020
  19. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Yeah, more specifically, forced air should have no difficulty cooling a battery about a meter long and a meter wide (roughly). It might be pushing their luck a little, since air has very-low specific-heat — it can’t conduct away a whole lot of heat, but I think that all in all they’re fine.

    When you’re talking about a much larger floorboard-sized battery it’s far harder to get enough cool air into that large an expanse, so liquid is pretty much the only way you can go (other than just letting the battery slowly crap out like Nissan does).
     
    #39 mr88cet, Mar 9, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
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  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Well, I thought we were discussing what the prime needs.
    If you take the o/p’s premise of 50 mile battery, throw in fast charging and liquid cooling, you’re going to have a $50,000. Car with no hatch space.
    Not a hot seller imo.
     
    #40 bisco, Mar 9, 2020
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