What Prius Prime needs.

The gen2 Volt started at $33,520. The model has sold as well as the Prime in past years. Some of those years were the higher priced, shorter EV range gen1. A gen2 Prime with a 50 mile range, would need a smaller pack because of the Prius efficiency, and access to better batteries. It would cost more than the current one, but Toyota could probably keep the base price under $30k.

Air cooling could be done right for larger packs, but it seems to have higher costs than liquid cooling. Cells that can withstand higher temperatures are needed. These cost more. Then the space required for proper air flow means the pack is physically bigger, so more space lost to the battery.

 

You're kidding, right? It took close to $10k of incentives (AND $7500 Fed rebate) to move Volts off the lots. I know because I was crosshopping Volt and Prime and followed the prices closely for quite a while.

And the above in no way disses the Volt as a car and especially as an engineering achievement; but making a great car and making a profitable car is two different things.

 

With the added weight, it also wouldn’t get quite as good MPG nor MPKWh either.

 

He knows Prius Prime was only available in one-third of the country, making the absence of supply a distortion of demand. He also knows that GM was all about conquest sales, not trying to actually change support at their dealers. So, the comment was misleading at best.

Reality is, the difference between goals & approaches was so profound, there is no constructive means of comparison.

 

Getting Primes off the lot also took large incentives, whether from the feds, states, and/or Toyota.

 

Where the Prime was readily available was some of the most populous areas of the country, and where hybrids and plug ins sell well. When the PiP was limited to just CARB states, Toyota's statement was that represented 60% of the hybrid market. Many posters here made the effort of buying out of their home state didn't have any Primes available. More so than did for the PiP.

Toyota is claiming the Prius Prime is nationally available. Sales success needs product available for buyers. How is it Toyota's competitors' fault when they fail on that? Granted Gulf and Southeast Toyota might be working against them(so much for changing dealer support).

The Volt had a roll out period in which it wasn't available across the country; all new cars do. When first year sales didn't reach 8,000, did critics cut them slack? Its second full year sales was 23,451. The Prius Prime's was 27,595.

If Toyota wanted to make an affordable 50 EV mile Prius Prime, they could.

 

An affordable 50 EV mile Prius Prime would cost the same as Volt - around $40...45k, - and would sell as badly as Volt (and Bolt).

 

I refuse to believe that GM outclasses Toyota by such a large margin. How can they ship a 250-mile battery in the Bolt EV for $15,000 LESS than Toyota could ship a battery 1/5th that size?

 

Low volume sales at a loss isn't anything to brag about.

 

That was the Prius in the beginning too. Perhaps Toyota should have abandoned that effort?

 

According to this article GM is losing about $7,400 per Bolt. That's still significantly less expensive than $50,000.

Also, I think the poor sales of the Bolt are because it's a GM product. I'd purchase an exact carbon copy of the Bolt if it was made by Toyota in a minute, but from GM ... not a chance.

 

23 years ago... Different time. Different audience. Different goals.

 

Sorry if I lost the context here, but are you comparing against the Prius Prime?

If so, then last I checked at least, list price at least on the Bolt was on the order of $36-42K, as opposed to $28-34K for a Prius Prime.

 

I'm comparing what it would cost for a theoretical Prime with a ~18 kWh battery. If Chevy's and Tesla's battery costs are any indication, it should only cost about $1,500 more. When you factor in the Federal EV credit, the car would be $1,500 less than the current Prime because it would qualify for $3,000 more in tax credits.

 

... right, because stuffing extra few hundred pounds and cubic feet of batteries in a compact car is that easy.

 

Under the rear seat is pretty much empty space.

 

Ah.

It would have to go into the floor, which would make it a ... very different vehicle.

 

Volt fit 50 miles in the floor of a totally new design.
Toyota hasn’t shown the inclination to make a brand new vehicle from the ground up.
Heck, they had to shoehorn 25 miles into the Prius

 

Volt or Bolt? Since you say “50 miles,” you presumably do mean the Volt.

The Volt had a T-shaped battery mostly inside the cabin space. The Bolt, which has more of a crossover form factor, has batteries in the floor.